The Pittsburgh Dish
Do you really know the food scene of Pittsburgh?! The Pittsburgh Dish introduces you to the people, places, and recipes that make our regional cuisine so special. By sharing personal stories, weekly recommendations, and community recipes, we aim to inspire you to connect with local taste makers and experience the unique flavors that shape our city.
The Pittsburgh Dish
058 Hal B. Klein, Trusted Guide to Local Eats
Ever dream of eating for a living? In this mouthwatering episode, we feast on conversations with two culinary personalities who stumbled into food careers through unexpected paths.
(00:48) First, we chat with B Dylan Hollis, the vintage recipe TikTok sensation whose theatrical taste tests of bizarre historical dishes like "pork cake" have captivated millions. Dylan shares how boredom and a collection of old cookbooks transformed this jazz pianist into a cookbook author with an obsession for America's forgotten flavors. His new book, "Baking Across America," explores regional specialties from across the nation, including Pittsburgh's beloved strawberry pretzel salad. Don't miss Dylan Hollis's Pittsburgh visit on May 27th at the First Unitarian Church in Shadyside!
(12:16) Then, Hal B Klein, senior food writer and dining critic for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, takes us behind the scenes of professional food journalism. From an acting career in early adulthood, Hal pivoted to a gastronomic calling, pursuing food studies at Chatham University, then eventually becoming one of Pittsburgh's most trusted culinary voices. He shares insights on hidden restaurant gems (like an authentic Uzbek kitchen disguised as "Vinny's Pizza"), Pittsburgh's collaborative chef community, and how a once-picky eater transformed into someone who eagerly explores every cuisine. Follow Hal B. Klein's adventures @HalBKlein on Instagram for your guide to Pittsburgh's most exciting eats.
Both Hal and Dylan exemplify how curiosity and openness can transform not just careers but relationships with food itself. Whether you're a dedicated foodie or simply someone who enjoys good eating, this episode offers a delicious exploration of culinary passion, cultural exchange through food, and Pittsburgh's evolving restaurant landscape.
Welcome to the Pittsburgh Dish. I'm your host, Doug Heilman. Would dining out four to six times per week as a profession be your dream job? We sit down with Hal B Klein, senior food writer and dining critic for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, to see what it takes. Hal has been guiding us to food throughout the region in various publications for over a decade. But first up, if you enjoy rye wit humor coupled with retro baking, then you probably know our first guest, B Dylan Hollis is a social media sensation and cookbook author. He's just released a new collection of recipes and he's coming to Pittsburgh. We were able to catch up with Dylan and have a quick chat before his visit. Dylan, thank you so much for taking some time and joining us on The Pittsburgh Dish. You are a cookbook author and, dare I say, social media sensation, and you have a second book coming out, Baking Across America, a Vintage Recipe Road Trip. And you're coming to Pittsburgh.
Dylan:We're so excited to have you, thank you to Pittsburgh for having me back not only on here but traveling on Baking Across America. Of course we were there shooting for this second book and then do a signing. You know this is going to be the only state where I'm going to have two signings, you know, one in Pittsburgh and then beforehand in Doylestown. So I love Pennsylvania. A lot of wacky recipes out of there, you know.
Doug:We do do that. Yes, I'd love to catch our listeners up in case they are not familiar with you. As we said, you are a cookbook author and this is your second book. But from a social media standpoint, if someone's not familiar with your videos, could you just describe for us what is going on on your videos?
Dylan:Well, there's a lot going on. I like to distill it down and tell people that I've come to really love going back in time and exploring old cookbooks. So it started way back in 2020. Of course, during the COVID pandemic, we all started doing new things. Some folks learned how to knit and crochet, as I say, but I learned how to bake, and I did so on camera, because I'd always collected old things and old cookbooks were among those things, and so I was flipping through some of my old cookbooks and I found this recipe, for it was called a pork cake. It was frightful. Yeah, it was basically a fruit cake with a pound of ground pork in it. All that to say, I tell the story far too often, but I came to bake it on camera. It was ridiculous. I say it tasted like a question and you know that video just blew up.
Dylan:Yes, so before long, folks were sending me in old cookbooks and I was baking through them and finding the wild, wacky and wonderful things. So what I do on camera is just looking through old cookbooks, finding some cool, crazy recipes and baking them and taste testing them.
Doug:It's amazing, and everything from the pork pie to I think I recall water pie, depression peanut butter bread, that one is pretty good. That all led you to your first cookbook in 2023, called Baking Yesteryear correct.
Dylan:Yes, baking Yesteryear, which a lot of people come to call Baking Yesterday because yesteryear is such an old wordaking. Yesteryear, which a lot of people come to call baking yesterday, because yesteryear is such an old word from yesteryear. But it's one of my favorite words, perfect.
Doug:You really have this penchant for the nostalgic, the retro. Has that been something all your life, something that's been percolating?
Dylan:Yeah, I think something was wrong with me when my mom had me something. Something was wrong with me when my mom had me. I've just, I'm an old soul, truthfully, and it's it's more so than other old souls that I've met. You know, I've. My first car was a, the 1963 cadillac, I named Earnest and still driving every day, and that's on the cover of my book. And you know, the first gadget real, true gadget that I convinced my parents to get me was a 1930s vacuum tube radio. I've just, I'm obsessed with it. Yeah, insofar as I don't know modern things, they come and go so quickly and I think there's a reason that these old things endure, and that goes for recipes, as well, I love it.
Doug:And you know we should also say this this wasn't necessarily your chosen path. You grew up in Bermuda, you went to University of Wyoming to study jazz, piano and music arranging and, as you said, this pork cake recipe has taken you on a completely new turn in this world of you know. Vintage deliciousness, we should say. This world of you know vintage deliciousness.
Dylan:We should say, yeah, you never know where life's going to take you. I did, you know. I studied I was going to go back home and be a music teacher. I got my bachelor's of music here in Wyoming, for you know, and I played that old school, old timey jazz. That's what I still play today. But I like time machines, not in a literal sense I don't reckon we've invented a proper one yet but you know, you can listen to old music and it takes you back. You can read old books and it takes you back. But I found something very special in recipes insofar as you can bake them and eat them and experience the same sensation that our forefathers and mothers experienced, and that's very unique. That's very special to be able to do that. You know it's the exact same, let's say for a few additional ingredients in our modernity, but it's, I find I've always found that really fulfilling and really interesting.
Doug:Yes, yes, I do have to say as a Pittsburgher too. Getting back to the new book right now on your social media, I think it's the pinned photo you are sitting in front of a vintage red suitcase and atop that suitcase is the most glorious looking strawberry jello pretzel salad, and for so many folks in Pittsburgh this is such an iconic and familiar dish. When did you happen upon that recipe for the first time?
Dylan:So you know, when writing Baking Across America we take. So I go through all of these old school cookbooks and you know all the church and community cookbooks are great because they tell you where they were published and when. So I would pile them all up for Pennsylvania and pile them all up for Delaware and then find which ones came up the most, bake them all and then do a lot of recipe testing and magic to create the best, you know, the best amalgamation of them all. So I first became aware of strawberry pretzel salad in. You know, by going through these. Even though they're not specific to Pittsburgh, they came up a lot in Pennsylvania as a whole.
Dylan:Of course you know a large portion of those were in Pittsburgh, but I had difficulty pinpointing because they go by so many different names. You know there's strawberry pretzel salad, there's, like you say, there's strawberry jello desserts, some people call them strawberry pretzel desserts and there's all varieties, variations in the name. But it was cemented when my editor, Alexander Rigby, told me about it and said you know, this is the old school dessert du jour, which doesn't make quite sense, but it's the dessert, vintage-wise, that Pittsburghers seem to think about and the recipe was actually tested and built off of a recipe from Alexander's mother, my editor's mother.
Doug:I love that. Actually, my mom made this at Easter, so we're still making it today.
Dylan:What do you call it? Because I've been asking everyone who I run into and everyone who lives or is from Pittsburgh and there's all slight variation.
Doug:Yes, I'm sure there is. I think officially we do call it strawberry jello pretzel salad because we don't actually serve it for dessert. It's usually kind of like a side dish for any kind of big family gathering, because dessert is, for other things, pie cake. So you know it's a salad. It has jello and fruit in it, so I guess it passes here Crazy. So let's go even beyond the dishes here that Pittsburghers would love. The new book really covers truly America, from beignets to Toll House cookies. How would you characterize this book in being, you know, different from your first one? Is it a larger slice of America or are there any significant differences on the way you approached it from your first?
Dylan:You know, the first was very easy. It was we captured lightning in a bottle. Insofar as you know, I baked these recipes on my social media and I would start them the same way. You know X and X from 1973, this and that from 1940s, and so it was a trip through time, you know, starting in the 19 aughts right the way up to the 1980s, and you can take different types of trips. You can take trips back in time or you could take trips across the country or you could do both.
Dylan:And that's really how I structured and how we thought of Baking Across America was that whenever I would bake an interesting recipe that was well-regarded in a location, the comments weren't so much ooh, that's interesting or oh, that's kind of weird. The comments were patriotic and really excited that they came from that city. They would say, oh, this is the pride of my town. I remember, you know, every grandmother in this state would make this one time or the other, and that was a different type of comment. It was like a hero had returned and folks were just excited that it was getting broader appreciation and that really triggered something in me to say, okay, there's more to a recipe than just a set of instructions to make something.
Dylan:You know there is a tie to a place and a time, so would it not be really exciting, then, to find these things from every state, because every state is different? That's the great thing about the United States is it's almost like you guys have a whole bunch of little countries within you. Essentially, and that's what started it, instead of laying out my cookbooks by the year, I started laying them out by the location, by the place and by the state, and then, sure enough, after a lot of arduous testing, we actually went on the road and we filmed these and we made them on location, and that was crazy. So, yeah, to answer your question, it's a travelogue.
Doug:I love that. I'm so excited to dig in this journey of Baking Across America and we should let our listeners know you're coming to Pittsburgh May 27th. You'll be at the First Unitarian Church in Shadyside, presented by one of our local bookstores, White Whale, so we can send folks over to their website for tickets. Dylan, we're so excited for the new book and what you have going on. We wish you all the best success with baking across America. It's been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you for giving us some time on The Pittsburgh Dish.
Dylan:Thank you for having me, and I'm excited to be back in Pittsburgh. Oh, thank you so much.
Doug:Dylan's May 27th visit to Pittsburgh at the First Unitarian Church in Shadyside is presented by local bookstore White Whale. You can get your tickets, which include a signed hardcover copy of Dylan's new book Baking Across America, at their website wwwwhitewhalebookstorecom and just look for events. And now, from retro home baking to modern everyday dining out, we sit down with Hal B Klein, who might just have the best gig in the 'burgh. Well, thank you so much for coming over and for being on the show. Would you introduce yourself to our listeners and what you have going on in the world of food?
Hal:Sure, I am Hal B Klein, and I am the senior food writer and dining critic at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
Doug:How long have you been at the Post-Gazette?
Hal:So I've been at the Post-Gazette. It'll be three years in June, and prior to that I was at Pittsburgh Magazine for around seven years.
Doug:So you've been doing food for quite a while in the Pittsburgh area.
Hal:Yeah, I was looking today. My first byline was in 2011. I had a column at Pittsburgh City Paper called On the Rocks, where I wrote about drinking culture in Pittsburgh.
Doug:Yeah, was that the first sort of writing gig that you were doing? In terms of food locally? Yeah, was that the first?
Hal:sort of writing gig that you were doing in terms of food, locally, right, correct, yeah, and then right around the same time I also was doing stories for the Allegheny Front, which is an incredible environmental radio show on WESA. Love them, yeah. So I was doing stories on them, with food and the environment, which was a really exciting way to learn journalism that way.
Doug:Yes, Before we dive into food, I do want to say this world that you're in now wasn't really where you started. Right, you were an actor, yeah.
Hal:Yeah, I. You know I am a big believer in always learning and always growing, and sometimes life changes how you go. So I spent the earlier part of my adulthood working as an actor. I lived in New York. I did a lot of Shakespeare there. A lot of classical theater moved out to Los Angeles, was in a couple of films out there and you know, while I was in Los Angeles I started getting more and more into food, just because it's an incredible food city, and going to farmer's markets California, of course.
Doug:Yeah.
Hal:Yeah, really incredible just to be able to go to, like, the Hollywood farmer's market on a on a morning. And as things got a little bit, you know, let's say, difficult with my acting career in 2008, when, during the great recession, it really shifted the way things were going there, I just started looking for something else in life. You know, I knew that I wasn't as satisfied as I was when I was doing work on stage in New York and, you know, just for fun, took a food writing class, didn't really think anything was going to come of it, and then decided when I wanted to kind of look and do something different. You know, I found out about this graduate degree called food studies, is that?
Doug:at Chatham?
Hal:Yes, I was part of the first cohort at the food studies master's degree program at Chatham university. There were only two other programs at the time, nyu and Boston U. Okay, and you know, those ones didn't appeal to me for for various different reasons, and I thought, you know like, hey, I'd actually been to Pittsburgh once in my life. I was in a commercial for arena football that shot here in 2001. Oh my gosh, arena football. I remember that. Yes, and that was, you know, that was my, really my only experience with Pittsburgh. But I came out here to tour the campus and thought, you know, like, hey, this will be a nice two years living in Pittsburgh before I moved back to, you know, probably, san Francisco, where my family is, and it'll be 15 years in August. So I think I'm here now, I think you're a.
Doug:Pittsburgh, yeah, so just to trace your steps where did you grow up?
Hal:So I was born in New York City, born in Queens. My inherent love of pizza oh yeah, I do believe comes from that. Grew up just outside of the city in a place called New City, New York. And then, when I was 14, we moved to the San Francisco Bay Area. My dad got a promotion so we headed out there, Went to college in San Diego, lived back in San Francisco, moved back to New York, went to drama school in London, back to New York, Los Angeles and then Pittsburgh.
Hal:And my family's still in the Bay area.
Doug:All right, all of these big cities. I mean this was your whole life and you were drawn to Pittsburgh because of your new career choice.
Hal:Your studies at Chatham, yeah, and I fell in love with the sense of community here.
Hal:You know, I think I love big cities always be part of my heart. You know. Go to New York and I feel feelings, oh my gosh, yeah. But I think there's. There's a sense of community in Pittsburgh that is really hard to find in a lot of other places, and it's something that I noticed early on and really kept me here. At a point, you know, a year after I finished grad school and earned my master's degree, I was like should I stay here? Should?
Doug:I stay or should I go?
Hal:Yeah, and it was like why would I go somewhere else when I have an opportunity to build a career here in something that I'm so interested in? It was at a really exciting time in Pittsburgh in the early mid 2010s, with the cocktail movement growing, with restaurants growing, with things opening, with farms really starting to take off.
Doug:I agree, I sort of remember in 2008, 2009 was sort of the first wave of a lot of great new dining, and when I moved back home in the 90s it was a big burrito group they were here already, but that was pretty much it and a lot of old time restaurants that we had heard about for decades, and then we sort of had this big boom. I think you arrived at the best time and then, I think, over the pandemic, we've had a little shrink right, a lot of struggle, and now we're back Over, I'd say like the last six months or so, you're really starting to see a sense of, like, growth and excitement coming back again.
Doug:I feel like everything is back. I think I said that recently to someone else. Like you know, people are not staying home anymore in any way. Like I go to restaurants and they're full and it feels good. But we are still living in this time now where most places are closed on a Monday, tuesday, maybe even a Wednesday, cause they figured out that a Thursday through Sunday service is what works for them and that it gives them a better work-life kind of balance too.
Hal:Yeah, it's one of the things that really started happening during the pandemic was people recognizing that for themselves and for their staff that maybe changing some hours or working at different times was going to create a little bit of a better life balance, which also translates to a better experience for customers a lot, even though it can be frustrating sometimes when it's, you know, tuesday night and you're like, oh, I really want to go to this place. But you know like, but that's also a part of the excitement is you get to look around and find out there there are so many places that are open on Monday nights and there are even Tuesday nights are harder. We.
Doug:I have noticed that.
Hal:Right now, but even then it's like you just have to kind of dig in a little bit. I've written a couple stories over the years of 52 places that are open on Monday nights. Oh yeah, yeah. So you just got to open up and try some new places, which I think is always a good thing, of course.
Doug:Tell us a little bit as a senior food writer, as a dining critic, a little bit about your process. How do you decide you're going to do a piece that has a particular topic or a neighborhood, and how far do you have to plan out to do some of those features?
Hal:So it's a lot of balls in the air all at one time, right? So there are these kind of tentpole things now, like the Eat Pittsburgh series that I try to do three or four of them a year, and those take a long time, right, because I really want to understand the neighborhood. Or four of them a year, and those take a long time, right, because I really want to understand the neighborhood. It's a real opportunity to focus on a specific geography in Pittsburgh and dive in and get an understanding of what makes it tick.
Hal:I think about the Beechview story I did last year and really understanding what's happened in that neighborhood with such an exciting, engaging influx of immigrants from Mexico, Central America, South America and you know, those pieces also might take a little bit longer because there can be a cultural barrier, and so there's a building of trust and understanding of people wanting to, like, share their food culture with me, right, which is, I think, the most, one of the most exciting parts of my job. Yeah, so I always have one of those projects going on. Right now I'm going to start another Eat Pittsburgh, probably Bloomfield, or I think I'm going to divide Bloomfield into two because there's just so much going on there.
Doug:right now there's so much going on in Bloomfield.
Hal:And that one will be a little different because it's my neighborhood.
Hal:You live there, yeah, so I understand it a little bit better, but I'm also working on a feature called the International McKnight Road Trip. Oh yeah, that makes sense, cause there's just so much going on. You know, I think when you drive or sit in traffic on McKnight road, I think the things you see visually are these like big chain restaurants, and so there's a perception that, oh well, there's nothing out there. But then you know, as part of like the, the, the journalism that I do for my job, it's just spending time really like driving up and down, going to all the little plazas, searching on Google and really discovering that there's oh well, there's this family run Turkish place that is is so charming and special. And then there's a place like Ramen King too, which I become obsessed with over like the last year.
Hal:Okay, I don't know that one. It's incredible. It's a handful of Chinese handed noodle place named Ramen King. The original one is out in Cannonsburg. The couple that run it grew up in.
Hal:They're from China, they lived in Atlanta for, lived in New York, lived in Atlanta for a bit, and they're making these incredible hand-pulled noodles like a la minute, like you order a bowl of hand-pulled of noodle soup and Brother Fu is pulling the noodles, you know, and cooking them right. That second, and this, like this beef and chicken broth, that's just like intoxicatingly delicious, and so it's. You know it's finding these pieces and then it's. You know, I did a standalone feature on ramen King cause I just thought it was so interesting, but it'll also anchor this McKnight story in the same way that, like chain do, gourmet too is up there. Yes, yes, and so it's. It's kind of packaging that information with places might be a little bit better known while exploring all these other places, and hopefully people will take this and use it as a guide. You know, I hope people go to all these neighborhoods and I need through it.
Doug:I absolutely think that that's what a lot of Pittsburghers need to, because I am guilty as one of those persons that hasn't crossed over that hill or that bridge to visit that one neighborhood. And then you report on it and tell me five places I should go. I'm like I need to go there, yeah.
Hal:And it's you know it's.
Hal:It's one of those things that it's you know I I feel so grateful that this is my job because I'm such I'm, I'm curious, right, and I want to know all these stories and so I get to do this for my work, and so it's doing that, while also keeping tabs of restaurants that might be opening soon, people that might be opening a new location unfortunately writing about places that close, sometimes of starting with a list of you know. What do I want to do today? What am I trying to accomplish? We have really good communication in our department, okay, so you know we have a spreadsheet.
Hal:So, generally speaking, we know, like you know, three weeks ahead what I'm going to be working on and that might change. Sometimes, if you know, I get new information about a place or I'm just blown away by a dish somewhere and I recent election, I was just really thinking about how Pittsburgh has really grown and developed so much from immigrants coming here and you know my first instinct was like I wanted to have this opportunity to really written about and highlight some of those places too. So a lot of it just sort of depends on you know it could be influenced by something in the news in a way that doesn't really seem obvious necessarily but might for me kind of click in my brain or whatever, to be able to talk to these people and get their story.
Doug:We talked to Soul Pasta a few months back. They came over from Kazakhstan, but then they started creating Italian pasta and I'm like, wait a minute, what's going on here? And they just have an incredible story.
Hal:I mean, it's the beauty of American cuisine too, right Is we have all of these melting pots coming together in weird and strange ways. I mean, when you look at, I'm super nerdy about history and I spend more time on my job on newspaperscom than I think people might think, digging deep into things, because I'm curious about when things get mentioned. So you know, like pizza, which is ubiquitously an American food right now, when it was first mentioned in newspapers in you know, here, I think, the first mention I want to say 1946, which is a long ago, but not like that long ago, not that long ago.
Hal:They know not that long ago. They have to describe what pizza is.
Hal:Right, right, yes, and so now it's you know, it's just a continuum of things in the way that you know. Maybe in the 1980s someone described what a taco was for the first time, and now, writing about Uzbek cuisine, people are describing what Monty is or I guess I'm describing what it is you know in this case. But it's all a continuum and it all kind of comes together in this really incredible, delicious way that people get to contribute to our collective story while celebrating their individual stories, and I just think that's so interesting. I love that.
Doug:And I also find that when you do talk to people, no matter where they're coming from and what their food is, we are so much more alike than we are different. Like, those stories are always about family and traditions and passing something down or sharing it, and that, to me, is why food is such a good vehicle for uniting folks.
Hal:Oh, completely. I went to an iftar, which is the meal that's celebrated at the end of the day every day during Ramadan, with the sunsets, at the Islamic Center of Western Pennsylvania up in Cranberry a couple weeks ago and you know, before the meal there was a prayer. It was really beautiful and during the prayer there were just like these kids, just like running around and mucking about and it just reminded me of when I was a kid. You know, I grew up Jewish. I'm not terribly religious, but I really appreciate the culture. And when I was a kid, you know, our parents would make us go to the high Holy days stuff and we were those kids running and it's like it's the same you know, there's nothing different about it at all Like kids are going to come together over food afterwards. Yeah, that meal, by the way, was incredible.
Doug:Amazing, yeah, like. What were some of the bites? Like, can you describe?
Hal:There was this okra dish that was made, I guess, in an Egyptian style that the person who made it managed to like coax out all of the like unctuousness of okra but, like eliminate the like spongy feeling that you can sometimes feel when you eat it. It was, I mean, it was like a really phenomenal dish with just like this heat in the background that, just you know, caught up with you Eventually it was gorgeous, yeah, oh, I'm sure that's a future article, probably.
Doug:Yeah, what else is sort of um? Some of the recent features you've done, like what should we share with our listeners? I mean, there's like a lot you know, it's.
Hal:You know, one of the things that happens in the digital world is we're always out there.
Doug:I mean you're cranking it out again and again, yeah, yeah.
Hal:And I'm lucky to work for people that do allow time to actually do a second, third, fourth, fifth edit of a story sometimes and really get into it. And you know there are things that are like very fast breaking. You know, if a place, a major place, closes or something like that, you know it's like let's get this up right away. And then there are features where it's like I want to go through and like make sure that the word choice is interesting and the cadence is right. And you know I'm engaging readers immediately in a way that's going to pull them in and make them want to read more.
Doug:It's what makes your writing captivating? You always are like pulling me in in some way. You're hooking me. I think they say yeah. I did have a side question. You reminded me. So at the Pittsburgh post-gazette there's yourself. I've met Gretchen McKay. I need to have Gretchen on, of course. How many folks do work in? I'll just air quotes that food.
Hal:So, like you said, we've got three food writers, you know, Gretchen McKay, Sono Motoyama, who joined us last year, okay, and then myself, and then, you know, sometimes people will hop in we have some good freelancers.
Doug:It feels like New York Times food, like I keep going back to the dumplings, but it's just top of mind. And then you've gone out and you've tried all these restaurants, but then I've. I know that Gretchen is showing you how to make it. You know she's bringing it to life. If you actually want to tackle that in the home, is that how that typically works? I mean, I don't know if there is a division of labor yeah, you know it's, it's, there's.
Hal:Definitely we all have our beats, okay. Um so, restaurants is my primary beat. Gretchen, you poor thing home cooking I know I know, it is like it's one of those things that's really weird to say when, um, when it's like, oh god, like poor you, but it's like it is, it is work.
Doug:You know, I do take notes, I do you know it's not like a normal going out. You have things in your mind you've got to achieve.
Hal:Yeah, I mean, it's fun a lot of the time, like no lie, but also that you have to want to engage with restaurants for five days, six days a week, which for some people is really exciting. For some people, I'm sure it would be a nightmare. For me it's really exciting. And you know it was something like the Pittsburgh dumpling project. That was a really great way to bring all of these things together. Um, it was telling a story that was developing as we were reporting it. You know, I was out there talking to people at restaurants who are making dumplings and then Gretchen would find someone from that cuisine or from that culture and she'd learn how to make it at home. Yes, amazing, someone from that cuisine or from that culture and she'd learn how to make it at home yes, amazing. You get the best of all worlds in a project like that and it was a big, exciting newspaper project to be able to do that. Do you have anything like that in the works now? Nothing, nothing that ambitious.
Hal:Okay, that one was. That was the two of us, yeah, really driving the project, and gretchen really amiably, like playing along with like my obsession as I got deeper into it. But then we roped in. You know, we have this incredible webpage designer, laura Schneiderman, we have all these photographers, and so we were roping all of these people into this project that just you know, looking back on it, I think, I released. We released stories every other week, which was a lot to just get that going, get the design, even if we worked ahead. So I think that one was one that we're like let's do this and let's let it marinate and do things.
Hal:I'm working on a series right now called the Class of 2015, because all of these restaurants opened in 2015 that are still really relevant today. But that one's a little bit bit, you know, slower pace. It's not as grandly ambitious as the dumpling project, but I'm sure there's going to be another night at 2am where I wake up and go oh, whoa, whoa, this is this, is it? This is it. This is the idea to start writing stuff down and go to the office, get it out of your head and put it on that, having people help me refine it after that.
Doug:Okay, oh my gosh. So you've got a spreadsheet and you've got these ideas that are coming out and you're able to flex in the moment if something's happening. Where do you find all of the information? I mean, are you digging yourself to find out who's opening a new restaurant or a new location? Are you getting leads from the world Like how does that work? How location Are?
Hal:you getting leads from the world Like how does that?
Doug:work.
Hal:How do you know where to go? All, I mean all of it, you know. So I have a good amount of institutional knowledge, because I've been doing this for a while now. So, I have a sense of what's going on in general. I keep in touch with people all the time. I use social media a lot to see things that are going on and to find things that I don't know about, and then some of it is. You know, people might give me a tip, they'll give you a tip.
Doug:Yeah, you got to go there, hal.
Hal:You got to know about it there was even with the Uzbek thing, which the Uzbek restaurants, which is something that I really thought I knew pretty much everything you can find, to the point where people in the Uzbek community were getting in touch with me when they were opening restaurants. And then I was out at Spirit one night and someone came out to me and said, have you heard about Vinny's Pizza? You know like no. And they're like it's another Uzbek restaurant in a pizza shop and this one is in Brookline. And I was like wow, I didn't even know about that one. It's like undercover, with that name, who would?
Doug:know, yeah, but.
Hal:I think, because I was posting about it so much on my social media that people knew that I'd, someone knew that I'd be interested, and then you know, I think the thing that makes me good at my job is it wasn't. Oh, I should get there, I'll go there, I'll do that. Whatever it was like, I went the next day, you know, yeah let's just do it.
Hal:Yeah, it was like we got. I want to go, I want to know about this as soon as I can. And that one one was amazing too, Cause I walked in there and I was like you know that one of all the Uzbek restaurants too. Like it looks like a place called Vinny's pizza that's been there since the seventies. There's like Steeler's stuff on the walls. No, you'd never know that this was an.
Hal:Uzbek restaurant and I walked up to the counter it's tiny three table space and I said you know, can I see the Uzbek menu? And the owner's like, or whoever was at the counter, was like, oh no, we don't, we don't have a menu. And I was like, oh, do you not serve Uzbek food? Like, oh no, did I get a false tip? He was like oh no, no, we just don't have a menu. But let me check and see what we have today. And it was, you know, friend of mine and this older women came in and she was like what are you, what are you guys eating? We're like, oh, we're eating Uzbek food. And she's like I've been coming to this place forever. What, what is this? Like? I don't even know about it, I just come here and get my pizzas, this. And it was so cool Cause it was like someone in the neighborhood just became a convert to.
Hal:Uzbek food yeah, cause it was there and it was you know what a treat to be able to share that with someone.
Doug:Oh, I love that story and it's again it's sort of undercover Vinny's pizza in Brookline. I love Brookline anyway. Great neighborhood, great neighborhood for food, oh my gosh.
Hal:This is Hal B Klein, senior food writer and dining critic with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, and you're listening to The Pittsburgh Dish.
Doug:You have me thinking, and I don't want to ask you for favorites, I think that's bad. But in the last few months, what are some other standout places that you're just like?
Hal:oh my gosh, and maybe you don't, it's, it's always you know, and it's it's interesting with this job because it's a balance right, it's. You know? I'm just thinking about Dish Osteria right now and how long it's been since I've been there. Yes, because sometimes I get caught up reporting for other stuff and I'm just like, oh God, I miss, like it's so good there.
Doug:Yeah.
Hal:Places like that. And yes, and I'm sure I'm going to run into McKellie there who owns Dish, and he's going to be like yeah.
Dylan:I haven't been in and I'm like no, no.
Hal:But then I'll see him, you know, picking up some, some like peas and asparagus, from one of the farmers there, and I'll be like all right, I'm coming in, you know.
Doug:Yes.
Hal:Yeah, Chengdu, you know it's become, I'd say, Chengdu Gourmet and Amazing Dumplings have become real places of celebration for me. They're great places to go with big groups, I think Chengdu especially like. I couldn't imagine going there with just one other person. It'd be so awesome.
Doug:I'd be like yeah, because you've got to order a bunch, how are we going to eat all this? Yeah, the point is you've got to order a lot of plates to share. You have to.
Hal:But I think those spaces become something that adds something that's extra special, and going there and being like this is a special occasion place, and I also love that because I think you know we used to think that special occasion places were these white tablecloth places, which are great, you know, like there's something really wonderful about those places, but also to have a place like Chengdu Gourmet and Amazing Dumplings is your special occasion spot is, for me, it's just fun and festive and delicious and it sounds perfect. Yeah, yeah.
Doug:Are there any other little gems that, um, that more people should know about that? They don't. There's a little restaurant called Fetfisk oh my gosh. They're getting a lot of love right now and that rye cavatelli.
Hal:So good and I mean well well-deserved, you know, know, it's that's. I like that story because, seeing how they started as this pop-up, yeah, you know, I think their first, I think the first time I went to them, was their second pop-up, which was in pigeon bagels. Before it was pigeon bagels. Even then it was like, okay, this is cool. And then they did something out in penn hills called the burger queen.
Hal:Um, at this like old club that I was like this is so like. It was one of those moments where I was like people that follow their guiding light and just do stuff and can execute it. It's so special. And then to see it, you know, go over to Black Radish, eventually, Soju all of these places, and then to open their own place and to really see something that was like, can they translate, you know? Can you translate the magic of doing something every other week or once a month into something that you're going to be open several nights, you know, four nights a week, five nights a week? Are you going to be able to like, capture this and are people who aren't the people that have already bought in, going to buy into what you're doing? That's right and they've done such a good job of doing it. You know, aptek is the exact same way.
Doug:Absolutely. I think the other thing to bring up is you just mentioned with Soju and Black Radish. So many others in the food community are supportive of their friends that are trying to make their way and develop this thing and it's not a lonely journey but really a community journey to get that, that new group of folks, to where they ultimately want to be.
Hal:Yeah, it's one of the things that makes Pittsburgh a very special place.
Hal:I'm sure this happens in other cities too. I hope so. I hope so. But it's something that really, since I've been in Pittsburgh, at least you know, I remember been in Pittsburgh, at least I remember back in the day of Bar Marco and the no Menu Mondays which I got to cook a few of those, which was way early on, before I was doing this as a living. It was just fun to be able to go in there and it really set a great framework for everything that's come after it. And when you think about the people that participated in those no Menu Mondays back then, they're still doing things now. And you're about the people that participated in those no Menu Mondays back then, they're still doing things now.
Hal:And you're seeing all of that. And you know you look at a place like Legume Butterjoy and the family tree of that, and you know, going back to Big Burrito, you see the family trees from there, yes, and you see all of these things interconnecting. But then you also will go to a bar at night and you'll see chefs from restaurants or front of house people from restaurants hanging out or stopping by other people's restaurants when they can. It was a really magic moment. God. This was. This must've been like 2017, 2016. It was right when Pittsburgh was really starting to was having this moment in the national spotlight, and so people were dropping in, and a lot of the stories you started to read back then were people just sort of repeating the same story with the same places. And then there was two reporters from Toronto I forget the name of the paper that they were from that dropped in, had an agenda and then started talking to bartenders, which is what you should always do in general, and especially when you're traveling.
Hal:And at that point there was this thing called boomerangs that were going around where a bartender would send you to another bar with, like a pre-batch cocktail for those bartenders you know as like a, as like a say hey, you know and they got caught in this like train of boomerangs where bartenders were like, oh, you're from out of town.
Hal:Like go here and bring this and say that we sent you, and then the other patrons go here and say this and it was the most of the moment, like Pittsburgh story, cause that's what was really exciting, that was the magic of Pittsburgh. That was hard to capture from the outside back then and it's something that still is going on today in the way that people are supporting other restaurants. I just wrote a story about Dad's Dog and Burger, which just opened in.
Doug:Bloomfield Love, love, love Dad's Dog and Burger. Yes, Kaitlyn, and Rick is the dad, Rick is the dad.
Hal:That's right. K aitlyn, before she moved here from Southern California, was just looking stuff up in Pittsburgh, got in touch with Sarah who runs Brothmonger, and just said like hey, I think you're cool, you know whatever. And then Sarah one day replied back and was like I'm eating wings of Gooskies in 30 minutes. Um, I verified the story with sarah now, so it's true. Um, I do do fact, you know fact checking is important. Yes, and it was caitlin's, you know, first day in Pittsburgh, apparently my goodness.
Hal:But it was like this instant thing. And then, you know, she helped out sarah during like the early brothmonger build and then was just on a walk and saw that you know the old burger shop that was there was for sale and now is doing this thing and she's buying chili from brothmonger to put on the hot dogs and it's just you know, and the neighborhood is showing up that fist people were there and um, if you go to dad's there's nothing I wouldn't get.
Doug:It's all perfect in the way.
Hal:Like I was just there.
Doug:It's a good burger oh my gosh the fries, the dogs, the burgers, the milkshakes, all of it, so just go to cats, you got me, you got me on a whole other I was just there.
Hal:This is my job, I'm just you know so good, I want to bring people into my excitement. Oh, my gosh.
Doug:You know? I think that's what works for you, is you? You mentioned that when you got your tip on the pizza joint, you went the very next day and I think that sense of urgency inside you, but it's coupled with excitement, probably why you're so good at what you do.
Hal:Well, thanks, yeah, I think that's the you know, that's part of it is just the excitement about it. And you know again, like, like, I get to do this for my job. So in a sense, you know, if I didn't go to that place in a day or two, I wouldn't be really doing my job, that's right. But also I think it's, you know, like I was like oh cool, like you know.
Hal:I called a friend, like they're saying like hi, there's a news back place I hear about and another pizza place we got to go.
Doug:So I'm going to shift gears just a little bit, because clearly you have a love for all of these different cuisines, but I have a suspicion you also like to cook a little bit at home too. Right, I do. Yeah, I've seen some mean pizza pictures. Tell us a little bit about this journey, or how did you perfect all of that, or what else do you like to?
Hal:cook. I'm far from perfect at my pizza making it looks really good. Thank you, you know, again it's it's living this life that just really is revolving around food, both in my professional sphere and in my personal sphere. I just think it's what a great luxury and what a treat that we have, that we get to. You know we have to eat, yes, so why not do our best to make it delicious?
Doug:Let's do it.
Hal:Well as often as we can, right right.
Hal:And sometimes that's just making a really good sandwich at home or just throwing together a soup at night and just knowing like, oh, if I just put a little ginger in this, that's going to be that much better, or whatever. You know it's like. Those things are things that just sort of come with practice. I'm sure you know cause you cook all the time, that you just learn little tricks, and then some of it is right now, as we speak, the asparagus in my garden is like going wild for the first time.
Hal:And it's like all I'm doing with that is like picking it, steaming it for 15 seconds, throw it in with some butter, garlic and lemon and some herbs in my garden, and it's so simple, but it's so beautiful and so delicious and it's like, oh my God, like I just want to do that all the time.
Doug:When did you plant that?
Hal:asparagus Seven years asparagus Seven years.
Hal:I was going to say it takes about seven years. You've got to be real patient. Gardening is such a lesson in life because you've got to be patient with things. You've got to learn how to deal with bounty, you've got to learn how to deal with rabbits eating your lettuce, but it really is this lesson. There's a great Doug Oster, great gardening writer in Pittsburgh who you know is so inspiring in that way, and then it's like you just learn from people like that.
Hal:One of my great mentors, Sherry Flick, who was the food writing teacher at Chatham. She still is an incredible flash fiction writer, but her garden is this, like wonderland. And you know like you spend time in Sherry Flick's garden and you're like, wow, this is so inspiring and it makes you just want to be able to do even if you just do like, even if you do like a little thing Right. Like you know, maybe you're not going to be in the same place for long enough to plant an asparagus patch, but you can grow some container tomatoes and some herbs and that's going to bring you just an extra bit of joy with not that much effort. It's great, it's. You know, we're in the doldrums of winter and then all of a sudden, it's this gorgeous.
Doug:April day and you're like, oh, I'm just going to go and get my asparagus and tarragon and mint and whatever. Well, you reminded me and we talked a little earlier about your family life but thinking about your palate and how you do food now, what was food life like for you growing up? Did you cook much as a youngster?
Hal:No, I was such a picky eater Really.
Hal:Yeah, apologies again to my mom and thank you for being patient. And I think you know, I think part of it was me having, I guess, like a stronger sense of recognition of flavor than I probably realized, knew what was going on, and part of it was just growing up in the in the eighties and early nineties and a time of very industrialized food. Yeah, so I remember very distinctly working at a Shakespeare festival in Santa Cruz and going to a farmer's market there and eating an in-season strawberry grown for flavor for the first time. And it just changed, changed my life, you know. It just changed the way I thought about everything, cause I was just like, oh my God, like this, like you eat a grocery store strawberry and they're like, they're not good, you know, having that moment of going like Whoa, like this, this flavor. I want to to capture this again, cause I did. I always liked to cook, but it was like I started cooking because I was so picky that I just wanted to cook things that I liked, you know.
Hal:So I got really good at cooking things like a baked ziti, yeah, yeah. And then moments like that are moments like eating, like I was at a food festival and there was this oyster stand and the person I was with was like just so excited it was hog Island oysters like just north of San Francisco which, like their oysters, are still phenomenal.
Hal:And I had this moment where, like when you're a picky eater, you often decide you're not going to like something before you eat it, right? So you make the face and you just go oh, that's gross. I'm trying, oh that's gross, and it's like you didn't even try it, right. But in this specific moment I was like, oh my God, I just have to throw this thing back and my goal was just like don't vom, but like don't bomb, yeah. But I just like threw it back and I was like whoa and like light bulbs and electricity and everything. And then, like that was like a moment where I was like, okay, well, if I'm gonna eat an oyster and it's amazing and delicious and minerally, everything else in the world is gonna taste good too, probably, you know.
Hal:and if I don't like something that's okay, but like I gotta try this thing in the same way that I tried this oyster and that's like how I live my life now. Yes, it was the thing that really expanded the appreciation of food producers as well right, which is what led to going to school for food studies.
Hal:Um, along with you know, like starting to read these, like great writers like jonathan gold, who was in los angeles, um, and robert sitsima, new york, who still is a legendary writer, who was with Eater now he's writing a sub stack. He's at the Village Voice for a long time. Jonathan Gold was the long time he was the LA Weekly food writer and then Los Angeles Times dining critic. If you can go back and read his work, I mean, he is such an inspiration or was such an inspiration he passed away. And so reading writers like that, who have that same mindset of like curiosity and openness and like hunger, like all led to it, you know. And then moving to Pittsburgh, and you know, watching Rick Sebeck's work and getting to meet Chris Fennimore Um, I did um, back when I was in grad school.
Hal:I helped out on a couple of Chris Fennimore's PBS shows, making food with him. So fun, so fun. And you know, and Chris is such a Chris is such a generous wealth of knowledge. Yes, again, you know, it's not just, it's not just with you know, chefs and bartenders in Pittsburgh who are generous with their stuff. It's other people in all aspects of it. You know, like being here and having someone like Chris be so generous and saying like you should meet these people, or having Rick Sebak.
Hal:I remember, like I remember the first day Rick Sebak posted something like oh, I read a story by Hal B Klein and I went and got it and I was like, oh my God, like Rick Sebak, like Rick Sebak read my thing and then he went and did it. You know I know the feeling. You know it. When Melissa McCart was here at the Post-Gazette, you know she was the same way with that and it's great. And you know it's like you want to. Just Gretchen was like that too, or is still like that. You know, yes, and you just like. So now it's like I want to pay it forward too in the same way for you.
Doug:Is there any big article or any big things you're working on that you can share with us right now?
Hal:I think the thing that we're doing now that's like pretty exciting is we've just started doing more on-camera stuff. So I've done I did one with the Uzbek restaurants, I did one with Ramen King, with the latest Eat Pittsburgh, you know, just telling stories in a different way, cause I think it's it's a good way to bring new readers in, it's a good way to like kind of hone in on a story. You know, not everyone has time to read and print two days a week in the food section, so we have a lot of stories, so maybe not everyone has time to read every single thing that we do. Hopefully you will, but you know, doing that working on this International McKnight Road Trip series which I'm like so excited about I'm excited for that one.
Doug:I'm really excited about that one, I'm excited for that one.
Hal:And then paper-wide, the US Open golf tournament is coming to Oakmont and we're doing a huge package with that, so there'll be restaurants and bars involved in that one. I'm not super involved not as involved in that project because there's lots more sports stuff, but it's going to be a really good guide. I think it's going to be really exciting. And then yeah, and then yeah, just keep on doing the work. You know it's like I'm gonna keep finding new stuff and have a story about rockaway pizzeria they're just around the corner here.
Doug:They were in white oak and they're moving to regent square.
Hal:Yes, and I'll probably at some point this year update my best pizza list. Um, because it's been a couple years since I've updated that and a lot of cool stuff has happened. It's weird that pitts not weird, I guess, but it's exciting that Pittsburgh has become like a really interesting pizza city. Oh my gosh.
Doug:There's so much going on. I know that we're taping now in the end of April and they just had the big pizza expo in Vegas, so all of our local folks come back with some kind of awards like crazy awards that you know. This is like a worldwide expo.
Hal:And it's like building on the camaraderie that we've been talking about a lot. So I convinced the paper to send me there last year. Oh yeah, which is great, thank you. But it was a fun story and even in my pitch to get sent there I thought, oh, there's going to be somewhere like 30, 35 people from Pittsburgh going and everyone's like, wow, it's so many, that's exciting. And then I went and I kept finding more and more people from Pittsburgh and there were more than 60 people.
Hal:That went in 2024. And I think around the same this year.
Doug:Yes, incredible.
Hal:And again, like the camaraderie, it's like you know, pizza used to be a world where people really did keep their secrets, that's right, yeah. And in Pittsburgh there's like a bunch of them on their, on a text chain, with each other sharing, sharing, cause you know, again, like they're all in different spaces, they're in different places, they're doing different things in different styles.
Doug:Yeah, the different styles. I think that's the other thing is we're now used to different styles as consumers, as eaters, and so I love a Detroit style. Now, I didn't even know what that was 10 years ago, before Ironborn was in Smallman Galley, so you understand more because we have such a great pizza culture in Pittsburgh. It's incredible. Yeah, it's really great to see. All right, well, it sounds like you have a lot going on. I'm excited. Why don't we take a moment and share with listeners any of the social places they should go to find your work or the work from the paper?
Hal:Yeah, I mean my Instagram is at Hal B Klein H-A-L-B-K-L-E-I-N. Pittsburghpostgazettecom. Slash food. You'll find all of our stories over there. At Pittsburgh PG and at Pittsburgh PG food You'll find a lot of our stuff over there as well.
Doug:Is that on Instagram? That's on Instagram. Yeah, pittsburgh PG food that's the one, that's all food, but then a lot of it even goes on there. Yeah.
Hal:Pittsburgh PG has everything, too, also on Facebook. The Instagram is where I'm most active. I'd say, yeah, it's a nicer space. Yeah.
Doug:All right, Hal. There is always a final question I like to ask our guests. I don't know if this is going to be an easy or a tough one for you, considering your line of work. The name of the show is The Pittsburgh Dish. What's the best dish?
Hal:you've had to eat this week. I was thinking about that on the bike ride over here and it's. You know that's always a hard one, so I'm gonna give a shout out to, uh, fat butcher, oh yeah, the butcher shop in lawrenceville. Um, because I bought a bunch of meat from them and cooked it in a couple of different ways. You know, I smoked some pork shoulder and like I don't want to be like, the best thing I ate this week is the food that I cook.
Hal:Cause you know, I did eat some great stuff this week.
Hal:Um, just want to be sure, I went there's um a Syrian restaurant up on McKnight road that I thought was fantastic, but you know, just thought was fantastic, but you know, just again to be able to support a butcher shop like this that is sourcing all of their meat locally from really wonderful farmers who are raising Local purveyors yeah, it's really great. And so I just I love being able to go in there and support a place like that. Yeah.
Doug:Fat butcher shop. They're down in Lawrenceville, if you go in. They also, by the way, have a really great smash burger. They do, they do. Yeah, if you go in, they also by the way, have a really great smash burger.
Hal:They do yeah, they do yeah. To have a butcher shop like this that is working locally and getting in whole animals or like half animals and doing these custom cuts is something that's really special. But the only way to do that and Salam's, the market and the strip district has figured this out as well is to be able to have hot food or prepared food as well. Right, so they're making sandwiches at Fat Butcher. There you can get ground beef, you can get tallow sausages.
Hal:Yes, and so all of that you know. So if you're someone that's interested in cooking, you can get things. But if you just want to go eat something that's made from these like really beautiful animals, you can do that as well. And, like they just think they really know what they're doing there, call ahead if you want something special. Um, or do what happened the other day, which was I went in cause I wanted to get a pork shoulder to smoke and Steve the owner's, like you know, we're getting in all of our pigs tomorrow so I can break one down for you and pre-order and I was like cool, great, you know, like I don't live that far away, but I was also like and for my dog and I get a steak for dinner tonight. And then I went back the next day and it was like just walked in and you know, because I'd ordered it in advance, it was ready for me to go, beautifully cut.
Doug:So let me just ask one more question. So the pork shoulder, you smoked it. How did it turn out?
Hal:Great yeah.
Doug:Yeah, what did you shred it? Do you put it on sandwiches?
Hal:Just eat it. I made tacos today before I came here Delicious, yeah, it was nice. I love to have people over in the garden for dinner and stuff like that. So we have a long-running joke. I'm somehow on the poster for Disco Sunday Disco, which, if you don't know about that, is this incredible it's at Trace Brewing Jarrett Tebbets aka DJ Hoagie Dreams. We've bonded over our loves of sandwiches.
Hal:Um he started this a couple of years ago. It's the daytime into the evening disco. It's super fun and, for whatever reason, it's him, um, anthony Susan who goes by, pretty Tony, and Michael Palladini goes by DJ Jenny daddy, on this poster, which makes sense because they are often DJing there, and then me, um, cause I guess I just happened to be there in that moment where they took that photo and it was a nice photo. So we, we, we've dubbed me a DJ smoking meats, even though I've never actually DJed in my life but maybe one day you're living up to the namesake.
Hal:Yeah, yeah.
Doug:Yeah, that's an incredible story. Thank you, great Hal B Klein? Thank you so much for spending time with us and thanks for being on The Pittsburgh Dish. It was a real pleasure. That's our show for this week. Thanks again to all of our guests and contributors, and to Kevin Solecki of Carnegie Accordion Company for providing the music to our show. We'll be back again next week with another fresh episode. Stay tuned.
