The Pittsburgh Dish
Do you really know the food scene of Pittsburgh?! The Pittsburgh Dish introduces you to the people, places, and recipes that make our regional cuisine so special. By sharing personal stories, weekly recommendations, and community recipes, we aim to inspire you to connect with local taste makers and experience the unique flavors that shape our city.
The Pittsburgh Dish
055 Simon Chough of Soju Pittsburgh
What happens when you blend Korean heritage with American upbringing and add a splash of Hawaiian influence? You get Soju, a restaurant that defies easy categorization while serving up some of Pittsburgh's most intriguing flavor combinations.
(00:37) Chef Simon Chough welcomes us into his Garfield restaurant for a candid conversation about cultural identity through food. "Soju is a direct reflection of myself and my experiences," he shares, explaining how dishes like kimchi nachos with wonton chips and nori-dusted French fries represent his personal journey rather than adherence to traditional Korean cuisine. Simon's culinary perspective was shaped by family meals prepared by his grandmother, who adapted Korean recipes using ingredients available at the local Giant Eagle.
(18:47) Simon recounts the restaurant's recent struggle with disaster. When pipes burst during a January cold spell, flooding the dining room while the restaurant was closed, the Pittsburgh community rallied with donations to support staff during the two-month closure. "Never underestimate the community around you," Simon reflects, noting how this challenging period actually renewed everyone's passion for the restaurant.
(30:11) Simon's path to restaurateur wasn't straightforward – from studying biochemistry in Hawaii to working unpaid in a prestigious kitchen, his story illustrates the winding journey many chefs experience. Now firmly established in Pittsburgh's culinary landscape, he pays it forward by offering pop-up opportunities to emerging chefs and promoting other local restaurants on his social media. Follow Simon's culinary adventures on Instagram and experience for yourself why his "Korean food is Japanese food's casual cousin" philosophy creates dishes that are impossible to resist.
(47:38) Later in the show we get a quick wine pick from Catherine Montest for pork barbecue and a day-off recipe from Third Space owner/baker Chloe Newman. Come hungry!
Welcome to The Pittsburgh Dish. I'm your host. Doug Howman, how do you create a menu that blends Korean heritage and authentic life experience? Simon Chough of Soju tells us how, heading out for some pork barbecue in these warmer months, we ask Catherine Montest what bottle of wine she would grab to go along, and what food stuff might a dedicated bread baker be making at home? Chloe Newman shares her perfect grilled cheese. All that ahead. Stay tuned. Thank you so much for coming over and for being on the show. Would you introduce yourself to our listeners and what you have going on right now in the world?
Simon:of food. Sure, my name is Simon Chough. I am the chef and owner of Soju Restaurant in Garfield. Aside from the day-to-day at the restaurant, I try to get involved in interfacing with the community a good bit. So I do. You know events. I just did one with bad sauna that's right down the street from us. Yeah, and I have another coming up with this new. O'Noir foundation pair us with a designer of clothing and we make a dish based upon that clothing. So that should be fun.
Doug:Yeah, I think uh o' noir. They've done a couple uh big things over the years, and isn't it like dark food and stuff too right.
Simon:It's like a black theme. Yes, yes.
Doug:Uh-huh, oh, that's exciting.
Simon:Yeah, it is exciting. I'm a, you know. Yeah, I've never done anything like it, so yeah, it'll be interesting.
Doug:So you mentioned you're in the Garfield neighborhood. There's so much going on over there and you own that building that Soju is in right.
Simon:Yes, we are very fortunate to have bought that building way back in what it was like 2008,.
Simon:I believe.
Doug:Oh, really we bought the building.
Simon:yeah, it took us a very long time to open.
Doug:And so when did Soju, the restaurant open?
Simon:It opened in 2018. Oh wow, About seven years ago. We just celebrated our seventh anniversary on April 1st.
Doug:Congratulations, thank you. Seventh anniversary on April 1st. Congratulations, thank you For someone that hasn't visited your restaurant. Let's just quickly define the cuisine and what they're going to find when they visit Soju.
Simon:Well, I always like to tell people that Soju is a direct reflection of myself and my experiences. Rather than a I bill it as a Korean American restaurant. I try to refrain from traditional Korean like advertising myself as a traditional Korean restaurant, because we are not.
Doug:That you have nachos and French fries on the menu.
Simon:So you know, it is really just a casual Korean American eatery. Based on my experiences, my dad was born in Seoul and my mother was born in Eastern Pennsylvania, in Wolfsburg, and then I've been there's little Hawaiian influences there because I spent about five years out there and it's just kind of a culmination, it's an embodiment of myself really.
Doug:I love that. I love that you're bringing something so unique. I mean some of the things that I really like and we'll have to get into the food, but the kimchi nachos which you make. It's not with nachos, right, it's with the wontons.
Simon:It's the wonton chips.
Doug:That's right. And what else is on the menu that's sort of unique to your, your experience.
Simon:Yeah, definitely the kimchi nachos, I mean the killer tofu is just something that is like I've always enjoyed eating tofu that way. That's something I've been doing for, you know, forever now. So that kind of is a similar thing. Nori French fries too, that's right, you know, to sprinkle that furikake on French fries is a thing that I've been doing since I was a kid.
Doug:I actually love that combination. That sort of salty brininess makes total sense. Yeah, but who would think of that, right? Yep, yep. And then let's just go through the menu a little bit more. There's a couple of rolls I'm probably not going to say that Gimbap, gimbap.
Simon:So what you'll find too is uh with korean food. The pronunciation and uh phonetic spelling is often different yes, um, so in korean it's just characters. You know, it's another um language, so in another alphabet, excuse me. So you'll notice gimbap spelled with a k, with kimbap, yes, or you'll notice it with a G gimbap. Those are basically a Korean Japanese fusion, you know, because Korea was occupied by Japan for many years. You know, and they brought you know the Nori wrapper and just the tradition of rolling things. But like I like to say that Korean food is Japanese foods like more like casual cousin you know like.
Simon:Japanese food is like very refined and like, uh, the Japanese would never think to put all of that food inside of a roll like that. And Koreans like aren't afraid to just like make things like universally delicious and very conventional and you know, just kind of break tradition there.
Doug:I have to say though I'll interject here I think Korean food to me is a little more zesty too. I mean we're throwing kimchi in there and, yeah, sure you might have a little wasabi on the side for, uh, some Japanese dish, but not, not the way. I feel like you're bringing flavors, or even that cuisine brings flavors, yeah.
Simon:Yeah, korean food is all very big. Yeah, you know, when I introduce new staff to it new staff that comes into my kitchen I always use the three S's. You know, all of Korean food is a little bit sweet, a little bit salty and a little bit spicy. You know so good yeah.
Doug:I love all the jangs too. I don't know how much that filters in. I mean, we buy gochujang here for at home. I do a lot of stuff with that, but I know there's even others and beyond me, right.
Simon:They are all basically so. Jangs are kind of also, you know, come from like a Japanese tradition of miso and then Koreans, like, just like Koreans do, they make it bolder and, you know, more flavorful, you know, and just like a deeper kind of more funky fermentation.
Doug:The jangs aren't subtle at all like their cousin, the miso, that's right and I'll just describe for any listeners that are like, what are we talking about right now? So you know, miso paste is like a fermented and congee, it's a fermented soybean, so, but you go into like, say, a gochujang and it's part of that, but then it's all these chilies, yes, and salty, and a little hot, but not crazy and sweet. Yes, so good, so good. I'm probably not done talking about the food yet, but I did want to shift around and talk about the name soju and since, doing some comparisons to Japanese cuisine. Folks may have heard of sake, which I understand is more of like a brewed, almost like wine or beer, but soju is a liquor that's again from rice, but not brewed.
Simon:Distilled, not brewed. Yes, distilled, very similar to vodka.
Doug:Okay, yeah, and you have. I think I was looking at the menu online. There's all these different flavors.
Simon:You guys do.
Doug:Can you talk to me a little bit about that? Oh, yeah, yeah.
Simon:You know, the flavoring of soju just also speaks to that same thing that you know, when introduced to a product like that, like a rice liquor, Koreans are not afraid to introduce, you know, bolder flavors and kind of be like a little bit insophisticated about it. I love it. Yeah, you just get all these wild flavors.
Chloe:Yeah.
Simon:Yeah, it really is. It really is. And the flavors are wonderful, like compared to like your average, like fruit, you know artificial fruit flavored beverages. Yes, the soju companies really hit the nail on the head with a lot of them.
Simon:And uh, you know the the like the green grape, I mean it tastes like concord grapes, it's. It's fantastic. Is there one that's like a ginger? Yes, there's a ginger based one, and we also do a bunch of house infusions that are unique to uh soju as well. We uh do an espresso infusion and you know we'll make like espresso martinis and stuff that's so hot right now with some folks, and so that one's really great. We also do an in-house lavender one, and we also do an in-house honey infusion.
Doug:All of these sound really good for, like, the springtime. Now we're coming into warmer months, let's have lavender soju.
Simon:I guess yeah, and that one goes in the purple rain and when you hit, so it's lavender and pea flower infused soju. I guess yeah, yeah, and that and that and that one goes in the purple rain, and when you hit, uh, so it's lavender and pea flower infused soju excuse me, beautiful, right, the pea flower, yes, and it gives it that like purplish pink color and then when you add the citrus and the cocktail, it kind of changes the color and it's like a really cool thing.
Doug:Oh my goodness. Uh, so we talked about the restaurant. It's been open for just over seven years. How did you come to say that's going to be the name?
Simon:Yeah, you know, at the inception, when we first bought the building, I intended on maybe calling it Simon. It's S-A-I-M-I-N, it's the state dish of Hawaii and it's also my name. So, like I remember, when I moved there, people would be like, oh, simon, like Simon, and I'm like, yeah, sure, simon like Simon and uh and here I find out that it's this uh their version of like ramen noodles, basically, I mean, they'll even have it at uh McDonald's, you know it's like an option at McDonald's.
Simon:It's so widespread and just like very common people food. The story of Simon is that all the sugar cane and when they would work in the plantations of Hawaii the pineapple and sugar cane plantations the workers would all come together at the end of a long shift and the Koreans would have a little extra cabbage, the Japanese would have a little extra fish and you know it was kind of a melting pot meal and that really defined my cooking style, like it.
Simon:You know the way that dish was derived, you know, and I was like, oh, this is great. You know I could call it.
Simon:But then when I was showing that to a lot of people, the phonetics of s-a-i-m-i-n they're like semen or you know so like the people like they weren't familiar with the word and the way it was spelled, so like people were getting the pronunciation wrong and people aren't really familiar with that dish, so it was just something that like meant nothing and it was hard for them to relate it back to my name. So I really thought about it and I was like you know what, maybe we won't call the restaurant that. And I was thinking of you know, I wanted something that kind of rolls off the tongue and even if you don't know what it is, that at least like it's easily pronounced and then maybe you learn about it from there.
Doug:Exactly my experience with soju. I was like, is that just a name? And then I, you know, visited and dug in. I'm like, oh, this is a drink. Oh, it's like sake, but not like sake you know all of the things.
Simon:So, yeah, it got me even more intrigued with your, with your place. Around the time of that name change, I, um had took a trip to LA and I hung out at these fantastic soju bars. There's one in particular that's called Dwit Gol Mok and in um English that translates to like alley bar, and it's these like famous little alley bars that they have in Korea, these like little spots where they'll have like delicious food, but it's these like famous little alley bars that they have in Korea. These like little spots where they'll have like delicious food, but it's kind of like our dive or like gastropub in England.
Doug:Perfect, yeah, amazing.
Simon:So that's where my wife and I were drinking soju and we were just like you know what Soju is, what we?
Doug:got to do. Yeah, sometimes that second pivot is the perfect pivot.
Simon:Yes, it really was. I can't imagine any other name at this point.
Doug:I want to go back and just ask a couple more questions about food. You do have some more traditional dishes. Sure, I got to say it right Bibimbap, yes, bibimbap, okay, and that's typically shareable. Folks are getting it to share, yeah.
Simon:I really enjoy when folks get it to share. I serve it just like my grandmother did. Uh, instead of usually you'll see it in a stone bowl. Yes, um, my grandmother never served it in a stone bowl, you know, when I was young, um, you know that it would have just been too much, I guess, to get a bunch of stone bowls and heat them all up, so I was never used to having it in a stone bowl. So, um, I just omitted that. That was my experience, and the bibimbap we have is also very particular to my grandmother. I've never seen another bibimbap set like ours. The addition of the cucumbers the pickled cucumbers is something that my grandmother would always do, that I don't see. A lot of other restaurants or other, you know bibimbap's hosting that ingredient and that has like a really nice rice vinegar element to it. So it really contrasts nicely with the beef.
Doug:I was thinking a couple of things that you were talking about. That it hits a yinzer pickle thing that we need yes yes, since we couldn't say the first name that you know, I went to soju.
Simon:You're, you're catering to our yinzer palate and and sort of the readiness to adopt, I think yeah and I think, uh, I mean, I would have to imagine that's what my grandmother was after in its inception. You know, when she started cooking that way, because you, of course, all my grandmother's recipes are altered from for one availability of ingredient, you know, of course, like here, you don't, you're not going to have a lot of those vegetables that are, you know, readily available in korea. So you know it's a little bit more americanized vegetable set. You know, if you have it at a traditional korean restaurant, you'll notice like some burdock and all these like to to an average American, unidentifiable vegetables, you know. But yeah, so my grandmother, I'm sure, altered her recipes for what was available at Giant Eagle Right and also for my grandfather's. You know, who she was feeding was my grandfather's colleagues and her kids, who were becoming increasingly, uh, yinzers.
Doug:Yes, americanized.
Simon:Yeah, and so, yeah, I think she really uh, you know, because her recipes and you know what I see as uh, what like traditional Korean food to me were uh, were already Americanized and were already altered. So by the time I started eating this food and getting these recipes, it had already been Americanized.
Doug:Yeah, I mean, that's just the experience we hear so much with folks that come to this country. They can't find the things they're used to and they just figure it out. They know how to adapt and you've kept that adoption the whole way through on the menu and I think that's what makes soju so special. You've kept that adoption the whole way through in the menu and I think that's what makes soju so special. I do want to just touch on a couple more things. You know, the bulgogi is so good, the short ribs are so good, and then folks may not know this, am I saying right Banchan, the banchan, yes.
Doug:Okay.
Doug:When we went to Busan a couple of years ago I think they brought us like nine or 10 little dishes and can we just describe to listeners if they haven't visited and they don't know what we're talking about like what is the banchan?
Simon:Banchan would I'm trying to think of like an English word that?
Doug:kind of condiments.
Simon:Yes, but then it's also like pickles and sides, you know. So condiment, you know we tend to see condiments as mostly like sauces, liquids, but you know, within that condiment, like I mean, if you're going to consider pickles, condiments, relish, right, so it's that type of thing. Thanks to accent, your food Right, and often you know, in Korea, like banchan is the meal you know it could be. I mean for what I've experienced.
Doug:Yeah.
Simon:I mean when we traveled to Korea. The only time I've ever been to Korea it was after my senior, the summer of my senior year of high school in 2005. And my grandparents organized this big trip the whole extended family and we all toured through the entire country. We were there for almost a month. Yeah, it was amazing. So we were on a budget. You know, there was all these people, I think my grandfather, like, offered to foot a lot of the bill, so there wasn't a lot of budget for eating and um, this meal that we would have day after day was this bunch on? You know they would. There would just be a bowl of rice in front of everybody and then a ton of different.
Simon:You know, bunch on side dishes to add on little things to add on, like I mean, I would have to imagine in their inception they were just based on stretching out your rice. You know, they're all very salty, they're all sometimes a little bit sweet and some they're all very strong you know a lot of fermented things, so there are things designed specifically to eat with a bunch of rice. Eat a small amount of panchon with a big old bite of rice. It just kicks up the flavor.
Doug:Yes, If someone visits Soju, what are some of the items they'll experience commonly?
Simon:So our banchan set comes with a Korean barbecue and it is radish kimchi which we make in-house, and also Napa cabbage kimchi and a pickled cucumber and those are like our core banchan because that's what I grew up with. You know, people are a little thrown back. A lot of people expect like this and I'm thinking about, you know, trying to incorporate. I was trying to gauge people's interest on the internet with these strange banchan. You know, the anchovy one.
Doug:You just put that. I saw the anchovy one in the last couple of days or something.
Simon:Yeah, I think you know I might try to introduce some of that in some more extensive banchan sets. You know, to be honest, I don't know how ready the Pittsburgh dining scene is for like extensive banchan like that. It is very acquired.
Doug:It's an acquired taste. Yeah it, it is very acquired. It's an acquired taste, yeah.
Simon:It's not something when presented to like a meat and potatoes Pittsburgh person. Yeah, it's going to be strange.
Doug:I think the bigger trend, millennials and younger, are a little bit more adventurous.
Doug:Yes, they are, if I brought my parents to your shop.
Simon:Absolutely, Absolutely they are. Yeah, you know, but I you know what I find too about Korean food in general and the strength of the flavors and stuff and just the traditional Korean dishes, is that people yinzers, people that live in Pittsburgh, want these kind of things in theory but they often do not in practice.
Doug:Right, you know when they come into the restaurant you know, I've, I've.
Simon:You know people like tell us, sundubu, is this silken tofu stew? It's in a very acquired texture, less than flavor. You know it's a you know kind of a kimchi esque broth or gochujang broth, but, um, it's not as challenging in flavor as much as it is texture, and I'll put that on the menu every now and again. And nobody, nobody has any silken tofu stew. People are like, yeah, you know I'll take Korean barbecue.
Doug:Give me a short rib first, yep, exactly, exactly.
Simon:So I mean, while I would love, while it would really satisfy me to explore some of those like more traditional and funky things, unfortunately they just don't sell next to bibimbap and bulgogi.
Doug:Yeah.
Simon:Oh, this is Simon Cho of Soju Restaurant in Garfield and you are listening to the Pittsburgh Dish.
Doug:And beyond your doors, Garfield itself is just hopping right. There's a lot of synergy, there's some art nights, things like that First Fridays. Yeah, that's right, very supportive community. So can we talk about what happened at the restaurant this past January and where we are now.
Simon:Oh my, so we do not have tenants upstairs because I don't want to be a landlord, okay, and the furnace broke upstairs, cause I don't want to be a landlord, okay, and um, the furnace broke upstairs, I didn't know, and then it got really cold and the pipes burst, and then, um, of course it had to get a little warmer on the day we were off, so we closed up we're closed on Mondays and on Monday I got a little bit warmer and then the pipe you know, the ice uh unfroze off the pipe and caused it looked like jumanji in the dining room.
Doug:It was crazy I saw a post on instagram, my heart sunk for you, there were maybe some bad words said yeah, and it looked like it was raining right oh my gosh horrifying, I I know even in that same week when you're saying it, I remember lola's down in lawrenceville yes, and our friends thirdery, which is also along Penn Avenue, had frozen pipes, but nobody had something quite like.
Simon:I know if it would have just happened on a day that we were working, it would have been fine.
Simon:It would have been like oh, there's a leak, let's go figure it out.
Simon:And we would have turned off the water and everything would have been fine. But of course that had to happen on a day when nobody was there.
Doug:So you closed for two months for these renovations, for two months for some renovations. Yeah, can we talk a little bit about what you did to get through that, especially with your staff, and how the community has supported you throughout.
Simon:So my biggest fear. I mean, you know the building. Of course I was horrified. You know we own the building. It was like scary for that, but I knew in the long run all of that was going to be okay. I'm like we have insurance. We have you know. But my immediate fear was for my staff. You know being able. I mean we have had the same staff at Soju a lot of it since, um, we opened you know, uh my um all those seven years.
Simon:Yeah, yeah, my core staff, especially in the front of the house, has been with me since I opened, and a lot of others have been with me for quite some time, and I really feared that I would lose some of these people. They're all very talented and I really value them. So it was like, oh no, what am I going to do? And I thought about it, thought about it and I was like you know what? I'll ask the community to donate to a GoFundMe, and you know, of course, they were able to collect unemployment, but also to supplement that because and the community really stepped up and supported
Simon:you know, we raised $13,000. So, like my staff basically had full pay over that, over that two months, so I mean, and they all stayed and it really just renewed everybody's interest in it. Of course, restaurant work is burnout stuff, I mean, and they're in the same restaurant for seven years, so two months off at full pay was just like one of those things that we really needed. Yeah, you know, everybody came back, they were happy to work and it wasn't like this, you know, and they were just like grateful for the place again and, you know, really renewed everybody's interest in it, I think.
Doug:You know. So this is quite a traumatic experience for a small business to have to shutter. It sounds like in some ways there's this bright spot because some of the staff had off and they were all able to come back. But if you were talking to other small business owners that saw this situation, you know what would you share? That was a lesson or advice through any adversity like this.
Simon:Yeah, it's the same thing that I would really share about the restaurant business as a whole. It's just like hang in there, you know, when things look bad and catastrophic and you're not making the money you should or you're not, you know things aren't happening, then you're not picking up like you thought you would just hang in there, even in terms of just like how Soju developed. I mean, we're, we're packed now, but when we first started, you know nobody knew what we were doing and people, you know, and there was a, you know, a good year there that we didn't hardly do very much business at all, you know. But like you hang in there and you be persistent and, uh, stick it out and often you'll be rewarded. Yeah, and I think also a lesson was like never underestimate the community around you and the amount of support you are able to receive from them.
Doug:Yeah, you really have built a community, just the way you've built this business. You have recurring patrons and neighbors and people that want to see you succeed. I think that's the general vibe I always get and hear from other folks on this show Everybody's in it for everybody. Yeah, I'm not just in it for myself to win.
Simon:Right, that is the one of the most beautiful things about Pittsburgh's culinary scene. You know it's a very tight knit group, very uh, I like to say incestuous.
Doug:Everyone's worked for everyone.
Simon:Yeah, exactly you know there's this, like you know, they talk about like the seven degrees of separation in the Pittsburgh culinary scene.
Simon:There's like three you know, you could draw a line to any person from you know two or three people. I really appreciate how the Pittsburgh culinary scene is very cohesive and everybody supporting one another and, you know, uh, really looking out for one another. Like I, it's something that I do with my social media and stuff that I don't see a lot of other restaurants doing, um is that I promote other restaurants on my social media you know, like they're my own, because I go there and I eat there and I want them to succeed and I know that my patrons appreciate businesses like mine.
Simon:So when I see some small restaurant tour out there that's just starting out I like want to go visit their shop and like shout them out and make sure that my patrons know that hey, here's another person that is like me that needs your support just as much as I did back then.
Doug:I love that. You also do a lot of pop-ups yourself for folks that are coming up and trying something new, usually on Mondays, or something when you're shocked yeah, either Sundays or Mondays we're closed.
Simon:So, yeah, we offer the space up to people doing pop-ups. Yeah, working so close with these people that are just starting out really reminds me of what it was like for starting out and it renews the whole experience for me. You know, seven years to work on something is a long time and it could become mundane and it you know so, to bring these people in that are just new and I could remember how it was, you know, when we were first starting out. It's a really beautiful thing.
Doug:It's like the best mentorship ever. Yeah, yeah, all right, simon, I'm going to shift gears a little bit. You talked earlier about your family quite a bit, and so I'd like to just ask where did you grow up?
Simon:I grew up in town, in Monroeville, you know, right in the East suburbs. I went to Gateway High School and then after high school I went to do undergrad in Hawaii at Hawaii Pacific University.
Doug:And that's where some of the Hawaiian influences come to the restaurant.
Simon:And Hawaii is a really important part of my story because, being half Korean and half American, I've struggled. Because it seems that I'm not American enough for the white kids, but I'm not Korean enough for the Korean kids.
Simon:And it was that type of thing where I really just never found a place. You know, and it's ethnically for that matter, but in Hawaii everybody is mixed, something or other. You know I like fit right in there. You know, I remember first going there they would be like, yeah, you pass for local if until you open your mouth, oh, how wonderful.
Simon:So, yeah, yeah, I grew up in Monroeville. Uh, you know tight knit family, my, my dad has, uh, five siblings, so you know big old, uh, big old, extended fit Korean family and uh, we were all in Monroeville. You grandfather came to this country straight to Pittsburgh to practice medicine and then, I think quickly after they settled down in Pittsburgh, my grandfather found Monroeville and he built a house out there. It's the house my parents still live in. It's like the house I grew up in. So you have generations here. Yes, and it sounds like from your I grew up in so you have generations here.
Doug:Yes, yes, and it sounds like from your stories earlier, your grandmother started to adopt what she could find at giant eagle for her food yeah. What was food life like then for you that led you to this passion? Did you start cooking at an early age or well cooked for, like how? How was your experience?
Simon:yeah, so cooked for, definitely, uh, that. What I always looked forward to is dinner at grandma's house. You know it was aunt mary and grandma my aunt mary is my dad's oldest sister, okay and then grandma, who were like really holding down the food. So, like, aunt mary's house was always a treasure trove. You know she would always feed us delicious korean food and so would grandma. So there was, and then it was big like gatherings for us. Back then we, like once a week, everybody, the whole extended family, would get together and grandma would cook korean food for everybody. It was, uh, it was really wonderful and that's like really the uh atmosphere I'm trying to capture with. So that's amazing. The traditional family dinner, yeah, yeah, of course you going to have things there, like at our. You know that aren't necessarily, um, a Korean. You know there was always like uncle. Uncle Beanie wanted to bring over his wings or whatever.
Doug:Yeah, oh, we didn't even talk about the Korean fried chicken and the katsu and all of that. So, yeah, I see all that in the restaurant too. So where do you start cooking, or when?
Simon:does that happen? Oh, so I'd say I started cooking. I mean, both of my parents are also physicians so they weren't around a lot to cook for us. They, they like there wasn't a lot of. I never really saw my parents cooking. You know, every now and again my mom would make like something or other, you know like, uh, I always say, like the kimchi nachos, for example, um, I put a little bit of fish sauce in the queso, um, and that, uh, that comes from a flavor of my youth. It's like one of the things my mom would like pretty routinely cook for us is, uh, boxed Mac and cheese with peas and tuna fish. Oh, and that processed American cheese flavor with a fish flavor is. I always was super fond of that. And then when I went to go you know formulate the queso recipe for the nachos, I was like you know what? There are a little fish sauce in that queso you know, and so let's follow that journey.
Simon:So you are, you're more of an at-home kid because the parents are working and then I would you know, grandma would and aunt mary would be cooking these things and we'd all get together a little bit early so they would still be cooking. So I would have my eye on things, you know, and there was certain like production things that the whole they would kind of incorporate the family into. You know, there was like kimbap night or mandu night. Mandu or the k Korean dumplings or pot stickers kind of that requires a lot of tedious, you know, rolling and folding.
Doug:Everybody's going to pinch a dumpling.
Simon:Yes, exactly, Yep, Yep. So you know and those were my a lot of my first cooking experiences. You know, preparing some of this food, that was just very tedious and grandma would be like, hey, you know, fold these dumplings.
Doug:Oh my gosh, OK, so help. And grandma would be like, hey, you know, fold these dumplings. Oh my gosh, oh, okay. So help me follow this story. All of this family food is happening. You're getting that exposure. You're doing some cooking for yourself. You do go off to college in Hawaii and what did you study?
Simon:Biochemistry. Okay, yeah, I studied biochemistry in Hawaii and, uh, it took, you know, four years of doing that for me to realize that I want nothing to do with it. You know, I got into some, some field work, you know, some lab work in that, in that field, and I, you know, it was just absolutely miserable. It was obviously not what I wanted to do and I always, you know, throughout my life, I'd always worked in restaurants. You know I washed dishes grown up in a Chinese restaurant. I worked at McDonald's. You know I washed dishes growing up in a Chinese restaurant. I worked at McDonald's, you know, but I never really thought about it seriously as a career.
Simon:And toward the end of school, what I actually found myself doing was I lived in this house. My friend Sam, he had a wealthy family who was able to buy him a home over there, so he moved all of us in. There was like 16 of us living in this like real world style house, you know, and, um, I would do a lot of cooking in that home. You know, dinner and it captured that feeling that I was after with a family, dinners, yeah, and I would prepare these meals. You know everybody kicked money at the beginning of the week and I would do a one takeout meal a day and one sit down meal a day.
Simon:And you know, and it just became like I was the house chef at some point and you know, and I, I was, and I really started experimenting and really trying to cut my teeth there, you know, watching internet. And that was the days of, like early YouTube. And you know I remember the like just to put it in context like I had got my first smartphone like right around that time, you know. So these things were available and you could have it there while you were, uh, you know, cooking your dish. So I, you know, did a lot of experimenting and you know I would go out of my way to go try to find different, you know wild ingredients and cook new things, and it was really just feeding my interest.
Doug:You, you know then this is the spark that starts the journey to restaurateur.
Simon:Yeah, yeah, it was a hobby, you know. It was something that I just really enjoyed doing and would do for in my free time, you know, and um, and so I was like maybe this is something for me. I just had, you know, like I, you know, it was like maybe this is something for me. So what I did is I took my resume all around to all of what I thought or what the internet said were the very best restaurants in Hawaii, and the first one that I showed up at was a place and it was the top of my list. It was the very best restaurant in Hawaii at the time. It was called Chef Mavro Chef Mavro.
Chloe:Okay.
Simon:M-A-V-R-O and a chef was actually a Korean guy. His name is Chef Kevin Chong and he was like, look, you know, gives me a look over, kind of stern look. And he's like, yeah, we'll take you on as a old school commis. I was like sure, whatever that means. What that meant is I was going to work 60 hours a week unpaid. So I was just, you know, very eager and they invited me in and from the moment I stepped foot in there I knew I was in the right place. Oh yeah, and it was a small group and they ran just such a tight knit, awesome kitchen, you know, family meal every day, like it. It was just, it was a real family over there and they, they worked me super hard, they kicked my butt, you know, and there was a lot of it, but it was what I needed at the time. I needed that type of just like hands-on. Just. I needed that type of just like hands-on, just like militaristic you know this is how our kitchen is run.
Doug:You are going to learn that. Yeah, you're going to learn all these things here too.
Simon:Yeah, I mean I really learned. I remember, like I remember the first day I got there I was trying to tie my apron behind my back and she shakes his head at me as I literally had to show me how to put on the apron. You know, I mean I learned so much there. You know more than I could ever imagine. To be honest, like just to continue the story, all of the chefs there were graduates of CIA Culinary.
Simon:Institute of America in High Park, New York.
Simon:So they were like look well, if you want to do this thing right, you're going to go there, you should do that. And then again, I was a little apprehensive.
Simon:I was like I don't know more schooling, whatever, and they're like you know what, just try it out, go out there for a couple of years and you know, chef Kevin wrote this letter of recommendation from other chefs and I was able to get like they were able to give me scholarships and yeah, yeah, I'm going to go to try an associate's degree in culinary arts now, and they were just like what.
Doug:Um, so you go to CIA. Yes, yes so.
Simon:I spend, uh, I spend a little less than a year at Mavro, um, you know, just really cut my teeth. Eventually they hired me on and offered me a little bit of money and then, uh, yeah, cia and Hyde park, new York. I don't necessarily know if I would do the same as my chefs did and recommend that to somebody else that was trying to take my path. Um, I will say it was great for um, networking and meeting other people, but, um, in terms of cooking, it seemed like a lot of time, just like, uh, and especially coming from such like a high pace environment and a legit, like you know, triple a five diamond James Beard award winning kitchen going there.
Doug:It just seemed like a lesson to it seemed like you're taking a step back in a lesson, right, like slow pace, like some basics, yeah, yeah.
Simon:If you don't know, it's good if you've never worked in like a professional kitchen before and you're, you know. But a lot of these, you know a lot of these kids there they were like had to learn how to work like physically and I was just like oh man, You've been there already.
Simon:Yeah, it was a little bit frustrating in that regard. You know I was very serious about it. I am not necessarily proud of how I acted there either. I was, you know, I made a few friends, but I, you know, I was very just like hard nose.
Doug:And I was like, because you were so ready for something else, you were ready for the next step. Right, and that's probably why.
Simon:Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it was I yeah.
Doug:Well, tell me this, then let's kind of move forward. When do you get back to Pittsburgh and start thinking about opening Soju?
Simon:So, yeah, yeah, I spent some time doing some stages, like you know. I realized quickly that New York city I wasn't going to be able to hack it in New York city either. That would I mean. That city is amazing and it's, you know, the most amazing restaurants probably in the world there. But, um, you know, that city was going to eat me alive if I stayed there. So I uh was like you know what I think, uh, pittsburgh's the right place for me, yeah, you know. So I moved back to Pittsburgh. Um, you know, just try to get jobs. I spent some time, um, you know, managing the dingbats.
Simon:You know like uh just like normal kitchen jobs you know, I worked at 11 for a while. Okay, um beer hive. You know my parents helped me out with buying the building. We were very fortunate to get in that neighborhood before prices skyrocketed.
Doug:Yes, you really got in at the right time. Yeah, because it's really just exploded.
Simon:It's true, and you know I mean I don't shy away from the word gentrification, and you know coming in and that, or revitalization.
Doug:Yeah, because what I would say about Garfield too is I think it's still very mixed in the best way right.
Simon:And that was part of my business plan from the inception. Like, if we're going to buy this building here, you know, and take advantage of the fact that a building is affordable and we're able to buy a building because any other you know we're going to get Regent Square or wherever you know I wasn't able to buy a building so coming in there, I was very cognizant of that and that I have restraints as far as, like, I want this to be affordable for every single person around.
Doug:I agree a hundred percent. I know that you can walk into your place and you can have a nice meal for under a $20 ticket. Yeah.
Simon:Yeah, and a drink, a happy hour drink, that's right, you know.
Doug:Yeah, yeah, so it's still truly a neighborhood spot for anybody. Yes, all right, simon, let's jump forward. You guys have reopened now. I know I just saw that you had a pop-up with Pickle Boy. Yes, and so how about anything coming up in the near term or even throughout the year? Do you have any events we're going to host?
Simon:Pickle Boy pretty often over the next. You know, pickle Boy is Mike Lambert. He is longtime, uh, bartender at soju. Yes, he's a bar guy and he was always. He's just really into sandwiches and like normal sandwiches. You know nothing, like nothing crazy. We like we're always talking about how pittsburgh just doesn't have like a normal, like, like what? Uh, what we experience in new york is bodega. Yeah, you know like we just wanted to have like bodega food, you know. And so soups, sandwiches pickles, yeah, yeah, and Mike kills it.
Simon:He's been. He would always bring in these pickled eggs, these curry pickled eggs, and we would have them for family meal and everybody would be like we need more of this type of thing you know.
Simon:So he's going to be popping up. He's going to be popping up, definitely. I just am was actually talking a lot over the last couple of days with Jason. We've done pop-ups with him before he's peed on my shawarma. Oh yes, and what we'll do is we kind of do a collab, him and I, where I stack Korean barbecue meats on his shawarma spits and we do like Korean shawarma you know, and yeah, yeah, We'll add a little bit of like gochujang to the uh, the eggplant, the roasted eggplant, spread Like baba baba ganoush, yeah, baba ganoush.
Doug:Yeah, yeah, and we'll just like Korean up baba ganoush yeah.
Simon:Yeah, so it's a, you know, it is a really cool thing. So we're talking about doing that. I don't have too much lined up as far as pop-ups right now, so if anybody is listening, yeah, yeah, I mean I I always open them up to. I've been trying to encourage my sous chef, alexis, to do more. She was doing them for a while. After, I'd say, six or eight months of working at Soju, I start to. You know, bring that up to people. Like you know, it is an option. If you have an idea or have a concept you want to see how people would take to a certain type of food or whatever you cook, let's do it, and you could hire me for less than I pay you.
Doug:Kind of an amazing opportunity for someone working with you.
Simon:I think so. Usually I make the offers you know like uh, even like I'll just look for people who are, you know, in the you know like uh maybe they're doing the brewery thing or something like that. Yeah, exactly, exactly, or I have friends you know what I mean Like, gary is another big one. I'm sure he'll show up at some point again. We'll do some collabs. Uh, gary and I. Gary is GS Sando company.
Doug:GS Sando. That's right, I've seen GS Sando around. He just got a truck, so you'll see him more at the brewery scene.
Simon:We were just able to get him into a truck. So that's awesome, that's cool.
Doug:And what about the neighborhood itself the first Fridays? Has that been going on, or is it that stuff in?
Simon:the first Fridays. No, first Fridays usually stops during the winters. I mean, there's a little bit of a pickup. Every now and again somebody will host. You know Irma Freeman will be doing some art or something, but in the winter time they're not like they are in the summertime, right?
Doug:So they're starting to happen again. It's a block party, I mean it is just fantastic. All right, simon, it has been so great to talk to you and so, hopefully, folks are anxious to want to visit Soju. Maybe go visit a first Friday. Why don't we give you a moment to plug your social handles or your website? Where can they find you?
Simon:I mainly for social media. I do Instagram, um. We are soju PGH on Instagram at soju PGH. Um, and the website. You're better off, uh, just linking to the website from the internet, because I did not pay for a website, for a domain name. So it's just like I use Wix, so it's like my name and then like a bunch of numbers or something like.
Doug:I found you. If you search Google, you'll find the website. Yes, if you just Google.
Simon:Soju or Soju Pittsburgh, you will find the website. That's right and uh. Part of keeping the Soju at the price point that it is is that I try to cut extra costs out in a website domain name is one of them.
Doug:Yeah, yeah, you got to be lean. Where you can I get it All right. Simon, I have one more question for you before I let you go today. Yes, the name of the show is the Pittsburgh dish. What's the best dish you've eaten?
Simon:this past week. The best dish I've eaten this past week it would have to be yakitori. My friend Jeremiah has I've been calling him the yakitori guy. Lately he has become quite obsessed with yakitori. Quite obsessed with yakitori, and so he bought this grill and he upkeeps his tare at least once a week. So he'll cook a yakitori at least once a week.
Doug:Is this just a friend's house? Yes, we're not. We're not able to go there with you.
Simon:I wish you were, and it may be one day you know, but yeah, the best meal I had this week was definitely a friend who cooked me yakitori.
Doug:So delicious. So can you just describe, for listeners that don't know what you're talking about, what were some of the things that were on the grill?
Simon:So yakitori, if you're looking for spots to enjoy yakitori, I believe Tempanyaki, kyoto has yakitori and also Umami has yakitori. And these are skewers, usually meat, usually chicken, cooked on a charcoal grill Charcoal grill yeah, so you get that flavor, yes, and it's like a special grill where the skewer fits so you could rotate it in almost like rotisserie, these tiny little skewers, and yeah, yeah, it is wonderful.
Doug:Sounds delicious. Yeah, it really is, Simon Chough. Thank you so much for being on the Pittsburgh Dish. Oh, thank you, Doug, it was great. Up next, as we get into the warmer months of grilling and barbecuing, I had an off-the-cuff question to challenge our resident wine expert, Catherine Montest. Have we talked about barbecue and wine before?
Catherine:No, I think we've talked about tailgating and yeah, no, not barbecue.
Doug:If you were just grabbing a bottle and going to somebody that was actually having a pork barbecue, what's the bottle you would grab? Oh wow.
Catherine:Pork barbecue. I might go for a Grenache, because barbecues you're doing those outside and a grenache is going to have enough acidity to cut through some of the fattiness in the pork and it's going to have some nice bright fruit flavors that will compliment some of the things going on in that barbecue sauce.
Doug:Yes.
Catherine:So I would think a grenache would be a really good choice for that.
Doug:Oh, I love this. As we get through to warmer months, I swear every day is cold and then hot and then sunny, but cold. I'm looking forward to barbecue. Barbecue is going to be a lot of fun this year. Thanks so much, catherine.
Catherine:My pleasure Doug Perfect.
Doug:You can follow Catherine on Instagram at your fairy wine mother. That's, you are fairy wine mother. Just a few blocks down the road from Soju is Third Space. We get a day off. Recipe from owner and baker Chloe Newman. Hey everybody, we're joined today with Chloe Newman of Third Space Bakery. Chloe, when we've talked before, you are baking a ton of great bread and other pastries and delectables at Third Space. I always wonder when someone is not in their food business and maybe they have a day off, what are you making for yourself at home? Do you have a recipe for us?
Chloe:A lot of the cooking that I do at home is not recipe-based. It's often you know what's in the fridge, what can I throw together. Maybe it's something left over from the bakery that I was lucky enough to snag. But you know, when I do have bread in the house, which is almost every day now, one of my easy weeknight meals is making a grilled cheese and tomato soup. And again, you know, not a particular recipe in mind, but I do have some helpful hints for folks, especially if you're using third space bread. I've tried making grilled cheese with pretty much all of our breads. I do think the house loaf is your, you know your classic choice there Nice and crusty, soft on the inside.
Doug:Great crumb, as we've talked about before, exactly.
Chloe:Yep, yeah, you might get a little bit of those cheese melting pockets, but it's not like all over the place. I do like to use mayonnaise on the outside. I know that there's some back and forth on whether to use mayonnaise or butter. I think mayonnaise is the way to go.
Doug:Personally, I've done this it browns so nicely and it adds a little more flavor, a little tang sometimes. I guess it probably depends on the mayonnaise you use.
Chloe:Yeah. Yeah, I do like to use at least two kinds of cheese on the inside. I think that provides a nice little flavor flavor balance.
Doug:Do you have some like preference, like what's your favorites?
Chloe:I was doing a Colby Jack and Havarti, yeah, and that was really. That was a nice blend, and my other recommendation would be to really go low and slow when you're cooking the grilled cheese. You know, just get it really nice and melty and I do like to, I mean, I personally like to almost burn the bread but a really nice dark brown for the best flavor.
Doug:Yeah, sounds delicious. Any tricks to the tomato soup that you pair it with?
Chloe:You know, some days I will just go straight Campbell's.
Doug:Why not? I think it is classic.
Chloe:Yeah, but otherwise, uh, using fire roasted tomatoes is really delicious.
Chloe:Yeah.
Chloe:Just for the soup base, um, you know, a touch of half and half or cream, um, any kind of Italian seasonings that you have in your, in your pantry, um, you know, love throwing some hidden veggies in there. If possible. Saute up some onions, some carrots even, and blend that in, just, why not? Whatever suits you.
Doug:I love riffing a recipe like that with whatever's on hand, and I'm open to a grilled cheese and tomato soup any day. Chloe Newman, thank you so much for being on the Pittsburgh Dish.
Chloe:Thank you for having me.
Doug:You can follow Third Space Bakery on Instagram at thirdspacepgh. Do you have a recipe? Share it with us. Just visit our website at wwwpittsburghdishcom and look for our share a recipe form. If you enjoyed the show, consider buying us a coffee for this episode or supporting the show monthly. You can find links to those options at the bottom of our show description, and if you want to follow my own food adventures, you can find me on social media at Doug Cooking. That's our show for this week. Thanks again to all of our guests and contributors and to Kevin Solecki of Carnegie Accordion Company for providing the music to our show. We'll be back again next week with another fresh episode. Stay tuned.
