The Pittsburgh Dish

047 Chef Jonathan Homer's Culinary Journey

• Doug Heilman • Season 2 • Episode 47

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(00:53) Chef Jonathan Homer, the executive chef at Pizzaiolo Primo in Market Square, takes us on an exhilarating journey through his career and aspirations. Transitioning from a successful stint at Blue Sky, Chef Homer immerses himself in Primo's world of Neapolitan-style cuisine, celebrated for its made-to-order pastas and irresistible wood-fired pizzas. We rave about the iconic crab limon and ragu bolognese with tagliatelle, and the art behind crafting a perfect margherita pizza that has sold thousands.

Jonathan's story is one of resilience and passion, tracing back to family roots in Uniontown and Cleveland, where Polish and Italian community traditions first sparked his culinary dreams. Jonathan's journey is filled with personal challenges, including his father's illness and recovery, which propelled him toward his dreams in St. Louis. His time at Favazza's Italian restaurant taught him the finer points of fresh pasta making, cementing his dedication to the craft. 

(19:48) This chapter of his life paints a vivid picture of a chef who constantly evolves, learning from each experience and mentor he encounters, which continues with his return to Pittsburgh. 

(26:37) Later in the show, we explore the warmth and wings of Bigham Tavern in Mount Washington with Autumn Pawelec, and get a cherished family tradition of making homemade gnocchi from the Costanzo family. Join us for an episode filled with passion, perseverance, and flavor.

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Doug:

Welcome to The Pittsburgh Dish. I'm your host, Doug Heilman. What's the secret to culinary success for this week's guest, constant learning. We talk with executive chef Jonathan Homer Love to know that favorite neighborhood bar spot for good food and drinks. Autumn Pawelec has her pick in Mount Washington and Want the backstory on Italian gnocchi. We have that, along with a recipe. All that ahead, stay tuned. The Pittsburgh Dish is supported by Chip and Kale plant-based meals. Select from dishes like crispy Korean barbecue, tofu bowls or Chesapeake Bay chowder. Visit their website at chipandkale. com to learn more. Now on to the show. Well, thank you so much for coming over and for being on the show. Would you introduce yourself to our listeners and what you have going on right now in the world of food?

Jon:

Yeah, so I'm Chef Jonathan Homer. I am the chef at Pizziolo Primo in Market Square.

Doug:

And, Jon, this is a new move for you, right? Because I've actually talked to you once before with your lovely wife-to-be, your fiancée.

Jon:

Selina Progar. That's right, she's the pastry chef at Eleven. She came on back in December. Yes, we were discussing this. Off air is what they say, that's right. Yeah, she came on. I was the chef at Blue Sky then and I've moved on since and down at Market Square now. It's been a good month and a couple days.

Doug:

Just since January or so, since we're recording, oh my goodness. Well, I have to say, you know, Blue Sky had a great run. I guess, unfortunately, like we're moving on, yeah, and that concept is no longer. But I'll tell you, Pizziolo Primo has always been such a consistently good spot.

Jon:

Yeah, it's a great location. The team that's already there was great, so I'm excited to move in there and kind of fill that role that they were looking for with a chef to, you know, kind of take on a lot of responsibilities that they were looking for.

Doug:

Yeah, do you have any idea how long they have been open in that spot?

Jon:

I think it was like 15 years. Oh my gosh, that's right. Yeah, something like that.

Doug:

And we should remind our listeners this location, Pizzolo Primo, in Market Square. It's right in like sort of the nice corner by Starbucks. It's Neapolitan style. They've got the wood fired oven right. Yes, Pizzas built the wall around it. And all of the pastas I mean everything that I've had has always been amazing.

Jon:

Yeah, so a lot of our pastas are made fresh in house. We've, like I said, we have a great prep team, we have a great. I have a great team around me. They just plugged and played me, so that's great for me. Is there another location? Yes, there's a location over in South Fayette, over in Bridgeville. It's been open about a year and a half now.

Doug:

So, as you join this new team, is there anything right out of the gate that you're excited for or that you're bringing to the table there?

Jon:

Well, so I worked for a couple of Italian chefs in my life. I'm more excited to see what they have to offer and what I can learn. You know, 32, 33 in October and I, for me, I just I love learning. I love showing people what I have, but I also like learning from other people too. So it's, you know, it's, it's a good balance and the more that you put into something, the more that you know you can get out of it.

Doug:

That's right Before you joined this team, were you a patron of the restaurant? Did you guys go?

Jon:

Yeah, so actually, uh, I have a couple of friends that worked down there. Um and uh, we went down. We went down last summer sometime. Uh, selena and I did, and the pasta was great, the food's great, the atmosphere was always great, so it was easy to pick that place as my next landing spot. Yeah, yeah.

Doug:

I have to say I have a couple favorite dishes. I really love the ragu bolognese with the tagliatelle, I think. Yep, Do you guys have?

Jon:

a favorite. I guess mine right now would be the crab limon. Oh yeah, it's a really good sauce. All the sauces there are fresh made as we're doing. Nothing's made ahead of time. You're making it on the line to go. That's another aspect that I love is everything is made right in the pan, fresh, for each dish.

Doug:

Wow yeah, there's none of this like pre-batch stuff.

Jon:

No, it's not scoop and pour you know nothing like that, so it's cool.

Doug:

And the pizzas are amazing too. I mean, I think, do they cook in like under two minutes or something? Is that like that, the pizzas?

Jon:

there are really fast. We have a really good pizza team too. You know there's like two or three guys there. One guy's been there for 10 years. He started as a busboy and moved all the way up to the pizza guy. He's got his pizzas down. I'm sure he can make it faster than that. I just brought back an old employee too. He was telling me about all these competitions they used to go to and stuff like that. I think we have a good style that has been in place. If it's not broke, don't fix it. I agree.

Doug:

I am wondering, Jon, like at the restaurant, is there another dish or pizza that's like the top seller or something that everybody goes for?

Jon:

So last summer, whenever Selina and I were there, our friend Michelle told us our our margarita pizza is our top seller.

Jon:

She was like, got to get one of those. So we sat down at the bar, grabbed a drink their glass of wine and we had that. Margarita pizza is our top seller. She was like, got to get one of those. So we sat down at the bar, grabbed a drink there, a glass of wine and we had that margarita pizza and just fell in love with it. It's just, the tomato sauce is fresh made, the mozzarella is fresh made in house, the dough obviously everything's fresh made. And then, topping that with a fresh basil, it's just, it's melts in your mouth as you're talking.

Doug:

I'm shaking my head because I've actually had this pizza many times myself. It's probably my favorite.

Jon:

We were talking about it recently, actually to the media team that is around me right now and I think last year they sold over 6,000 of them, so that's a good seller for us.

Doug:

That's amazing. You've had sort of a great, pretty storied career in culinary so far. But I do want to take a step back and just ask you where did this passion for cooking and food start? Did you cook a lot in your family? Did folks cook?

Jon:

for you. So as a kid, I had a very Italian grandmother and a very Polish grandmother.

Jon:

So, I learned to make raviolis and pierogies with my two little baby fists, you know they had me in the kitchen. My mom's mom, you know she made everything Italian. You know seven fishes. I learned about that before I was even born. Oh, you know she did not speak English very well, it was very broken, wow, you know. So that was that was fun to learn from her. And then you know my dad's mom making pierogies. You know chicken and dumplings, things like that. Talking about the freshness, that's where I it all goes back to. For me it was six, seven years old in their kitchens. You know I want all of this right now. Yeah, right, so is your family from Pittsburgh. So I grew, um, I grew up in union town, okay, um, my dad was born and raised there.

Jon:

My mom was, uh, born in toronto, oh, and she grew up in cleveland oh yeah, so they, they met in cleveland, got married in cleveland, but we would, so we would go up there for christmas and things like that. And that's why I mentioned the seven fishes, because that was a big part of, yeah, going up to cleveland, big ital, italian community up there, exactly, exactly. So they got married at a church called St Rocco's. The festival up there was enormous, you know, people flocked from other cities to come to that St Rocco's festival and get the Italian sausage was the dish that my dad and I always went down there for.

Doug:

So, oh, that's great memories. Now what about your own cooking? Like when do you remember starting to cook for yourself or for other folks?

Jon:

no-transcript actually cooking for other people obviously my brothers and sisters but it felt like I was actually doing something. And then, you know, as I got older, I worked at a couple of different places, and I worked at this place called a duck hollow, and one Valentine's Day, whenever I was 15 years old, the chef comes down. He's like which one of you guys doesn't have a date tonight? And I was just like that's me. He's like you're working fryers? Oh, my goodness. And that's the storied career of how that started.

Doug:

Yeah, yeah. Well, remind me Duck Hollow. Was this like a restaurant?

Jon:

So Duck Hollow is a golf course in Uniontown but they had like banquet area and stuff like that. So on Valentine's Day they would have a big dinner or, you know, it'd be a place for people in Uniontown to go. Sure and so you started on the fryer, started on fryers. I asked the chef. I said when do I pull this food up? He's like whenever it's done. I was like, okay, I'm 15.

Doug:

I don't know what you're saying. Truly, training by fire. We did not have deep fires in my home growing up.

Jon:

No, exactly exactly.

Doug:

Okay, so let's just kind of take your journey along from the golf course. Where did you go next?

Jon:

I was there for quite a while and then there was a restaurant in Morgantown called T-Bones and part of the ownership group of Duck Hollow had gone down to T-Bones and they asked me to come along and that's where I became the first time I got a sous chef position.

Joe:

I followed.

Jon:

The chef, chef Mike, took me down there and it was that one was another experience, cause you were, you were doing things like inventory and scheduling and things like that, and I was, like you know, just amazed by it's not just cooking in kitchens, right? So, yeah, so from there, um, I eventually made my way out to St Louis and, yeah, that was, that was a journey in itself. In my early twenties, my dad, um, got sick and uh, I stuck back to in Pittsburgh, in the union town, I should say. Um, I stuck back in that area to um to help him.

Jon:

And uh, one day he went to rehab and told his um, his physical therapist. He was like my son really wants to go follow this culinary career. It's like I need to be able to get myself off the floor before he'll leave us. And uh, one day I came down from the room that I was staying in at their house and he's like stay right there. And he gets down on the floor and gets himself back up. And whenever he gets back up, he's like go, go, do what you want to do, oh my goodness.

Jon:

So I went out to St Louis and it was very, you know, bittersweet because I was like, thank goodness, he can take care of himself, but also, you know, I was going to miss them and you know that time that we had built together there.

Jon:

but yeah, I started at a place called Favazas which was an Italian restaurant out there in the Hill and the restaurants older than my dad, you know the, the owner, Tony Favazza, great guy, His, his son, is like a big manager there. They, they welcomed me in like family, except for whenever the cardinals played the pirates, because the cardinals out there are like the stealers of course yeah, it's a religion

Jon:

for them but um, yeah, that's, that's a lot of. Uh, the first italian um restaurant that like I really saw you know fresh things being made, you know fresh pastas and things like that, like in a restaurant environment, not just in grandma's kitchen in ohio.

Doug:

So just to kind of take a step back. All of your education is happening on the job. You're at the T-Bones restaurant at 19 years old.

Joe:

Yeah, oh my gosh.

Doug:

Learning the inventory, learning all the real sort of the back of the house business stuff.

Jon:

I was young and dumb and thought I knew everything. You know, and I can say that multiple times in my career and I'll probably say that again. You know, at some point. You know, but not even 22 years old, I'm moving to a brand new city, 600 miles away, different time zone, you know, finding this cool opportunity. I, honestly, whenever I moved out there, I just Googled, you know, restaurants in St Louis and started finding different ones that I thought I would fit in at. You know, and I did interviews.

Jon:

I went out there a couple of times and talked to some of the people and you know, I talked to Tony Favazza and Mark Favazza and they were just, they were just so welcoming they were. It was like my, my grandfather and my older brother were like all right, come on in. You know, we're going to show you how to make this stuff. You know, they showed me the ropes. You know, at Favazas I started as a line cook or prep cook, moved up to a line cook and you know, by the time I was leaving, I was making gelato for him. You know, I left to go to Four Seasons in St Louis and I still would go back and help Tony make gelato every summer. You know things like that. I mean to this day, if Tony called me and was like hey, come on out here. I would still probably want to do it.

Doug:

Yeah, oh, what a great bond and what a great sort of formative years story. So you have this time at the Italian restaurant and then you're saying, like you moved to go to the four seasons in St Louis at 21, 22, 23,.

Jon:

You're working two, three jobs. You know everybody does it. But another chef friend of mine helped me from a bar that I was working at move into a spot where I could go to Four Seasons. I went up there and I interviewed and that's the first time I met Gianni Colucci, who is a world-renowned Michelin star Italian chef, my biggest inspiration in my life. Um, he, as far as cooking goes, um he just, he taught me so much and took me under his wing and it was, it was a great experience. But I just remember the interview and one of the things he said to me.

Jon:

There was another gentleman sitting there. He had a shirt on that, you know, wasn't buttoned up, he was kind of slouched over and I'm sitting straight up and I got a tie on. He said why should I hire you over him? And I'm like, well, presentation's key in our industry. And so he hires me. And then a couple months later he actually hired the other gentleman too. So it was pretty cool moment for me. And I asked him, you know why? Why he had chosen me and that was why that cause the answer presentation's key, you know, and me, and that was why?

Doug:

because the answer presentation's key. You know well, you're right. I mean, all the details count in the restaurant business, in the dish that you serve, what the plate looks like. So even you dressing up a little bit more than the next person absolutely gives you that little bit of an edge.

Jon:

Absolutely I love that every time, every time I go to an interview, I dress up, doesn't doesn't matter what it's for you. Actually, whenever I got hired at Blue Sky, eventually, whenever I come back to Pittsburgh, the owner there after he hired me, he's like I saw you were dressed to the T, but then I saw you weren't wearing any dress socks and I knew you were more on my level. And I laugh because now, every single time I go to an interview I wear dress socks. So it's just take those little things from each interview and carry them on to each one. So it's a builder, yeah, sure, yeah.

Jon:

But Four Seasons in St Louis started as a pizza guy there and that was an experience in its own. Going back to the things of me saying I thought I knew everything, you know. I walked in there and I was like I'm better than a pizza guy. And I got back there and I realized how quickly, like, how much better those chefs were than me, and it just built. It just built a fire in me. I was like man, I just want to make myself so much better I still do, but like that fire, whenever I saw how great those chefs were, I mean I can, I can just remember seeing guys like Austin Beckett and Joe Simanek and they were my age you know they're no older than me, and I was just like God, these guys are so good, you know, I was like that, how do they knew all this stuff?

Jon:

And I'm just watching them and each one of them just took the time to sit there with you and actually like talk to you about like what, what we're trying to do here, you know and that that was something that I aspired to be too, you know so.

Doug:

I mean sometimes, when we surround ourselves with the right people, you just take that little bit of something from all of them and it also energizes you to be at or better than that level Absolutely yeah, yeah.

Jon:

This is Chef Homer and you're listening to The Pittsburgh Dish.

Doug:

So what else happens Like how long do you stay at the Four Seasons? When do you graduate from Pizza Guy?

Jon:

Yeah, so I moved around a little bit there. I stayed on pizzas for a couple months and then they eventually started making some changes. Some people move in other places, some people are getting promoted, so I did pastas there garbage and then eventually I was a grill guy because they had this thing called task force and all these guys went out to different places and they needed a grill guy. I jumped in you know I'd been watching Joe and Austin really, really actually do that grill position, became friends with those guys and just took advice from watching what they did, you know. So give me the opportunity to put me in that position. After I became the grill guy, you know that was those guys all started coming back and it was an opportunity for me to move around the kitchen. And then we had a huge banquet kitchen as well that seated up to 500 people. So I got the opportunity to go down there and learn that. You know, and I learned from guys like Roy Mosley, david Ballard these guys, these chefs, are big chefs in St.

Jon:

Louis, and you know they, they took the moments to actually teach me and that was. That was something where you know again, I, as I was learning, I would sit there and think I, I want to be that kind of chef whenever I, you know, finally get my own spots. I want to be able to teach people what I've been taught.

Doug:

You just have me thinking that part of the reason they were really good chefs and are really good chefs is because they do take the time to teach other aspiring folks around them, exactly.

Jon:

So I just wanted to also say for our listeners, if they're not familiar with the Four Seasons, this is a high end, high volume place right beyond the banquets, so it's a five star hotel at least the time that I was there, and in Missouri I think it was just them and the Ritz yeah, four Seasons is a high-end place and Cello was there before I got there and Gianni he turned it into what it was. The previous chef was an amazing chef as well. I didn't work for him. He left right before I got there and he went down to Four Seasons Orlando and turned that into an amazing restaurant and Gianni kind of created that family-like environment in the kitchen. You know learning from each other. You know not just the older guys teaching the new guys, but vice versa too.

Doug:

I love so much about this story because the path to what you're doing is not always about going to a culinary school program. You can really learn and absorb so much from your on-the-job experience and just stepping into the fire, so to speak. Were there any other pivotal moments or mentors from the four seasons that you really appreciated before you decided to move back to Pittsburgh?

Jon:

Yeah, chef Frank Woods, he's a friend of mine. He was the first person from St Louis to come out and visit me in Pittsburgh after I moved back.

Jon:

A lot of people are very supportive of me coming back here because it was for my dad to be with, to be around family, and you know it was my sister just had a baby and it was like I didn't want to miss out on nieces and nephews and you know, seeing my dad, you know be better and walking down the, you know his daughter's down the aisle and things like that, yeah, but yeah, Chef Frank Woods, man, he took me under his wing so many times and he, you know he was hard on me but he was like a big brother to me. You know it was like no, you're doing that wrong and this is why you're doing it wrong. You know he, I remember I moved to mornings and he, he had been on mornings for like two or three years.

Jon:

You know I was making an omelet at one point and he just looked at me and he's like no you know, he pushed me aside and he was like this is how you do it and this is why you do it this way, you know, and 5 billion omelets later, you know, every time I flip an omelet I think of Frank Woods.

Doug:

You think of that moment. Right, I love that. So I'm going to like pop back in, because when we interviewed your fiance Selina, I sort of remember part of this. There's a moment in your time in St Louis that you decide I'm coming back to Pittsburgh. And was it your mom or your dad that said why don't you look at the best restaurants here and apply? Is that right?

Jon:

Yeah, so my dad flies out to St Louis and I'm packing up my house and we're talking and we actually end up going up to Chicago and we go to Gibson Steakhouse Amazing, amazing food city in itself and he and I drive back from Chicago, just father-son moments, just talking sports, talking whatever. And we're getting on our way back and he's like what do you want to do when you get back there? You know he's like you don't have a job lined up, you don't have anything lined up. What do you want to do? I was like I want to cook somewhere. Obviously he's like where you know, he goes on his phone, he Googles best restaurants in Pittsburgh and you know the usuals come up and Altius comes up. I kind of told this story on uh last time I was on, but just to refresh your memory, um, I, he, he calls the phone number to Altius and he's like hey, can I talk to the chef or the manager or whatever? And then he hands me the phone.

Doug:

I was like thanks, man, this is your dad setting you up?

Joe:

Yeah, exactly.

Jon:

So Chef Jess comes on and I was like, hey, I'm moving back from St Louis, this is my experience. I can send you a resume, which you know. She gives me her email and we set up an interview and the first person I see is Selina. Whenever I walk into Altius, first night shift there, you know, I worked with her at stashed, a couple other places, and I was choosing between this place and that place and I chose Altius because I saw Selina, you know. But it was a great moment for me too, because it was one of the best restaurants in the city.

Doug:

I think it still is Right. Yeah, yeah, it definitely is. You're just not there anymore because you guys started to date Exactly, exactly.

Jon:

So so I left there and I went to Stonehouse, which is closer to Uniontown, and I was traveling back and forth and then eventually COVID hit and all the restaurants shut down, and that's whenever her and I kind of moved in together. And I moved back down to Pittsburgh and waited for COVID to to end and I eventually started working for Richard Deschantz. Coop De Ville is where I started there, ok, and then I moved on to Tako Torta. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe:

Over in East.

Doug:

Liberty.

Jon:

Yeah, Bakery Square. Bakery Square, that's right. And then from there is where the Blue Sky opportunity eventually happened. A friend of a friend told me that there was a restaurant open in East Liberty. They thought that I'd fit the role and that's where I met Matt and Matt, he and I interviewed and that was in April. He hires me and then we didn't open until July. Oh wow, that was a learning experience in itself. Was a restaurant. What year was this? God? That had to be 21, 21 to 22, probably.

Jon:

Yeah so whatever would it be in 20?

Doug:

we are in 25 right now.

Jon:

Yeah, gosh yeah, so it'd be 20, 22, I think it was yeah and now you've moved on and you're at Pizziolo Primo in Market Square.

Doug:

Yes, for this last, as we're recording, about a month, month and a half.

Jon:

Yeah.

Doug:

All right, Still learning right.

Jon:

Yeah, oh, I mean, and again, I'll learn. I'll learn every day. I don't ever want to put down the notebook to sit there and I'm taking notes everywhere. But I was the chef at Blue Sky and I was taking notes everywhere. But I was the chef at Blue Sky and I was taking notes from other people. Matt really showed me how to run a business and things like that, those things that I hadn't learned before in the past. And take little things that you said from every opportunity.

Doug:

Well, I love your success and just the story of your whole culinary journey. I'd love to know, beyond the wedding which I know is coming up later this year, right, yes, september 20th, your soon-to-be wife said she's gonna make all the desserts herself. She is, yeah. Well, beyond the wedding, what other goals or events or anything else you have coming up this year? What's?

Jon:

ahead. For you, I would just say, for me, it's just trying to build from the strong foundation that we have at primo. I was really happy whenever the social media team that's here today, they they came to us and they were like, hey, we want to, we want to push this. And I was happy about that because I at blue sky, that I felt like that was a big part of us was. You know, that's how we got a lot of our business was pushing out this kind of stuff.

Doug:

The right kind of marketing is what you're saying, yeah.

Jon:

And for me, like just building that foundation that is already at Primo is really just my biggest goal right now. I love it.

Doug:

Well, I need to go and visit there. Now that we talked about the pizza and that tagliatelle, those are my favorite things, absolutely All right, john, let's go ahead and plug your social handles. Where can people find and follow you if they want to follow your journey?

Jon:

So, Chef_ Homer1 for me, and is that on Instagram? Yeah that's Instagram. I think that's pretty much the only social media that you post. Yeah, okay.

Doug:

And we can remind folks about the restaurant. It's pizzioloprimo. com and the handle on Instagram is pizzioloprimo_ms for the market square location. Yep, all right, john, I think you know this last question because you've been around this show before. Yes, the name of the show is the Pittsburgh dish. What's the best dish you've had to eat this past week?

Jon:

Uh. So I kind of cheated here cause I knew this question was coming. So I went to go visit chef Chris at high hold. Oh yeah yeah, and uh, I had his lamb. Um, I, I knew this question was coming. Chef Chris had me um between Blue Sky and Primo. He had me come up and come up and help him out a little bit with. Actually it was New Year's Eve, so I think we helped each other that night, yeah.

Doug:

This is Chef Chris O'Brien out at the Hyeh olde in Moon, and if someone hasn't been there, it's a spectacular looking place.

Jon:

Absolutely, it's gorgeous. It's been there forever. Chef Chris was the chef there a while back and he recently came back in 2021, if I'm not mistaken and this became one of my friends. Chef Chris was the chef there a while back and he recently came back in 2021, if I'm not mistaken and just became one of my friends and his food is phenomenal. And again, I just love learning from smart people and I consider him one of the best in the city.

Doug:

So, just to recap, you had this lamb this past week. Yes, and tell us a little bit more. What's the preparation on it?

Jon:

Oh my gosh. I mean it's a local farm and everything about the dish is just. You know the flavors that he puts into it. Everything the grilled it's just, it's just melts in your mouth, you know falls off the boat. It's delicious.

Doug:

Sounds so good. Chef Jonathan Homer, thank you so much for being on The Pittsburgh Dish. Thank you, Doug. Anytime. Up next want the inside scoop on a great bar spot for food and drinks. Our friend, autumn Pavelic, shares her pick. We're joined by Autumn Pavelic, model and lifestyle creator, on Instagram. Autumn, you've been doing a lot more with food in your Instagram feed.

Doug:

Yeah more with food in your Instagram feed. Yeah, I was wondering when you and your fiance, kevin go out, maybe to watch one of the games at your favorite bar and have some bar snacks or food. Do you have a spot that kind of always draws you in?

Autumn:

Yes, absolutely, Bigham Tavern up in Mount Washington. They're actually located on Bigham Street Right. We've been going there since we started dating, like seven years ago. And it's just it's our like version of Cheers, if you know what I mean their bar food is me personally, I think their bar food is some of the best bar food in Pittsburgh.

Autumn:

And that's something it's awesome Like. It's such, it's such a cool environment, the food's good, the drinks are always cold. I mean it's just, and the bartenders there we love to. It does feel like a little cheers, like a little family. Whenever you know you become a regular there.

Maria:

Yeah.

Autumn:

But whenever we go like, let's say, we're going to go watch like a Steeler game their wings again, I'm telling you I think they are some of the best in the city.

Doug:

This is an extensive menu too, if someone takes a look, there's like a huge section just for mild and then they get a little more intense. What do you like?

Autumn:

I love the BT original. I love it so much. They sell some of their sauces and I actually buy the bottle to keep it home because, like, let's say, I'm cooking wings at home and that's the sauce I want. It's just, it's such a good OG Buffalo sauce, but with their own little twist on it, it's so, so good.

Doug:

Oh, I love that. Yeah, does Kevin have a favorite?

Autumn:

He does he. I forget the name of cause the. The list of sauces is so long, but I want to say it's like a little bit more of a kick to it. It's definitely not a dry rub, it's a sauce. I forget the name of it, but it's just he loves it, he of it, but it's just he loves it. He loves a little bit more of a kick to his wings, like he'll actually like sweat a little bit when he eats it.

Doug:

Yeah, I get it, though it's kind of an obsession. I'm obsessed with watching hot ones nowadays. Yes, okay, outside of the wings. Is there anything else on the menu? That's always sort of a go-to for the two of you.

Autumn:

Yeah, so they have. They have some really good like munchy appetizers, like, let's say, if you want to go and grab a couple beers and you just want a couple little like snacky foods. Their pierogies are really really good. Their fried pickles they call them tickled pickles are also extremely good, okay, wait, wait, tickled pickles. Tickled pickles. Yes, okay, this is a fried pickle. Yes.

Doug:

Is there anything extra special going on? Or just like, straight up good, it's just good.

Autumn:

The breading's really good, and then they have homemade ranch that you can dip it into and it's so yum.

Doug:

Yeah, here's a critical question. I want to know Are they chips or spears? They're spears, yeah, yeah, they're spears.

Autumn:

They're really really good. So those are like our go-to, like munchy snacks. And then, oddly enough, they have a really good French onion soup. Yes, have, I mean they have a whole menu. Um, their grilled chicken salads are really good. Um, they have really decent smash burgers there too, but their french onion soup I don't know what it is, but like it's just good. Like I will get the french onion soup every time. Wings and french onions interesting combo.

Doug:

I love that combo yeah, it's so good, perfect for a game day. Yes, so we're talking about Bigham Tavern, right on Bigham Street.

Autumn:

Bigham Street. Right next to Armful of Flowers Right on Bigham Street.

Doug:

Autumn. Thanks so much.

Autumn:

Yeah, thank you.

Doug:

You can follow Autumn Pawelec on Instagram at Autumn Pawelec. You may remember, a few weeks back we talked with Joseph Costanzo Jr and his daughter, Maria C Palmer. Maria co-authored the book On the Rocks, all about her dad's journey, and while we were together that day, they shared a bit more about another favorite family dish. Guys, you stopped by the studio to kind of tell the bigger story, but we got to talking gnocchi. Do I understand? You have a recipe or a couple of things to share with our listeners?

Maria:

Yeah. So, dad, why don't you share sort of the facts about it, and then I will share the recipe?

Joe:

Sure, At the Prima Donna we did homemade gnocchi, made it right in-house, we used a potato base and most southern Italian dishes that are gnocchi are made with potato. Now the northern Italians usually use ricotta cheese instead of the potato. It's based on the region, because Southern Italians were a lot more poor than Northern Italians. So, Maria, a lot of her gnocchis that she makes in her cooking classes, she makes it with ricotta, which it makes the gnocchi a lot lighter. Where at the Prima Donna we made traditional peasant.

Joe:

Italian food which I coined that phrase peasant Italian food, and the gnocchi were made with potato-based, of course. So that's the difference. There's two types of gnocchi. The actual gnocchi itself is usually made with potato, but the Northern Italians usually do it with ricotta cheese. So, maria, you can talk a little about your recipe, which you make with ricotta.

Maria:

Yeah, so, and actually my recipe is not really my recipe, it's my dad's aunt.

Autumn:

Josephine.

Maria:

She is very innovative cook and she taught me how to make this years ago and really you can substitute. If you want to try the potato base, you can substitute the same amount of ricotta for the same amount of the potato, and that's how you do it. But it's very simple. It just is a few ingredients. So you have ricotta cheese and I'll just give this little tip Make sure you dry out your ricotta as much as possible.

Doug:

Like do you put it over a strainer with, like paper towels, or how do you do it?

Maria:

Well, a lot of times I will take it out of the packaging and. I'll wrap it up in paper towels, kind of like a pillow. Yes, and then I'll just throw it in the refrigerator and it's probably not the best for the environment and a bowl and it just kind of yeah but I'll switch out the paper towels a couple of times just to soak up all of that moisture.

Doug:

Gotcha.

Maria:

You want to get the moisture out because if not, you're going to going to add in your flour until it's really the consistency of a light dough where you can work it but it's not sticking to you.

Doug:

Gotcha.

Maria:

And then you know, you cut off maybe like a three eighths of an inch piece, you roll it like a snake, you cut it on a bias and then you sort of roll it either with your thumb and kind of make an imprint which is the very traditional way, or you could do the fancy way which I like to do, either with a grid or with a fork with the back.

Doug:

Is that with the gnocchi board that I see?

Maria:

Yeah, you can use the board.

Doug:

That's the fancy way.

Maria:

Yeah, or you could just use a fork. The fork does the same thing and provides those grooves that really hold the sauce in very well. It's not hard to do, but it's something that will wow your guest. I teach this class quite a lot and people come back and say, hey, I've made this now part of my holiday tradition, or whenever I'm going to a potluck I make this and you know people go crazy over it because there's not a lot of people that are actually homemaking pasta nowadays.

Joe:

Right. No, I want to say also because of the peasant Italian cuisine. We didn't use a fork, we used our thumbs.

Doug:

Now, Maria, does this fit the same when you boil the gnocchi, whether it's the ricotta or the potato? We're waiting until they float for a minute or two, yeah.

Maria:

Yeah, you can definitely wait till they float till for a minute or two until they're done, and the other thing that I like to do too, because they're fragile- yes. So I never just take it out of the colander and just dump it. I fish them out. So if you have one of those wire baskets, yes, like I call it a spider.

Doug:

Yes, yeah.

Maria:

You can, you know, fish them out on the top and then you put your gnocchi a layer of sauce, little cheese, and then repeat, kind of a layering effect, just like lasagna and you know can garnish on the top with a little basil if you'd like, or some hot pepper flakes, if that's what you're into. Fresh mozzarella, or, you know, a little bit of ricotta too, it doesn't matter.

Doug:

Is it a red sauce that you like with your gnocchi?

Maria:

I do yeah.

Doug:

Yeah, I do.

Joe:

You could use an Alfredo sauce if you want.

Joe:

You could use an olive oil and garlic you know with anchovies, but I mean, the red sauce is the traditional way and it was such an inexpensive pasta to make, especially people who were poor, and your children could get filled up with this pasta and they don't have to eat a lot If you didn't have the food, that's where it was. So this became a luxury dish, even though it was really a poor person's dish. Yes, and I said to my dad would you believe when you were coming over on this boat, on this ship, that people would stand in line for two hours to eat gnocchi? And he said I never would have believed it. When I was growing up he said people laughed that we were eating this dough or this pasta, and now people are begging for it.

Doug:

Goes to show when food is simple ingredients, done well and made with love, it's going to always win out Exactly. Thank you both so much for sharing a lesson on Yaki, a recipe, and thank you both again for being on the Pittsburgh Dish.

Maria:

Thank you. Thank you, Doug.

Doug:

Maria has several live events coming up in the Pittsburgh area. You can find more information on her website, mariacpalmer. com. Maybe you'll catch her making that gnocchi. Do you have a recipe? Share it with us. Just go to our website at www. pittsburghdish. com and look for our share a recipe form. If you enjoyed the show, consider buying us a coffee for this episode or supporting the show monthly. You can find links to those options at the bottom of our show description. And if you want to follow my own food adventures, you can find me on social media at Doug Cooking. That's our show for this week. Thanks again to all of our guests and contributors and to Kevin Solecki of Carnegie accordion company for providing the music to our show. We'll be back again next week with another fresh episode. Stay tuned.

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